I am one of those dumbasses who smokes cigarettes. To avoid the outrageous price of a pack of cigarettes here in New York, due to the amount of tax applied, I have been dealing with 2 or 3 Indian reservations who sell cigarettes over the internet. $70.00 to $80.00 per carton in local stores…$30.00 per carton via the websites.
There has been a long legal battle with the Indians against the State tax Nazis. The Reservations are sovereign lands, thus not subject to N.Y. State taxes on any items that they sell on the reservation. As long as the postmark gives the Reservation address, no tax is applied. It seems that for every court fight, the Indians win 10 cases, and then the State picks up one win. Very lopsided, but the State is relentless. A few months ago, the State put the screws to UPS, stopping that company from delivering cigarettes in N.Y. State. The only unofficial reason I could find was that UPS must ask what the contents of a package contains, so they opted out if it was tobacco. The USPS does not normally ask, so they became the only deliverer. That caused all deliveries to be signed for, under the bogus reason that it stopped underage sales. Now, if I miss a daily mail delivery, I have to go to the post office and sign for it (with ID).
The newest road block is the following…the Attorney Generals office has, as of Feb. 1, forbidden the use of credit cards for the purchase of cigarettes online. My question, finally, is how can the State legally tell a legitimate company that they cannot accept a credit card for a purchase? These Reservation sales numbers are HUGE. It ain’t a mom and pop business.
Do you have a link to the AG’s order? Within the order itself there should be information as to the legal authority on which the AG is relying.
Being in that business myself, (Salamanca NY, Seneca Indian Reservation is where my business is located) I can answer a little bit but not much.
They are relying on the seldom used Jenkins Act, which until it is updated (Currently S.1177 and PACT act) should not effect the Indian Reservation but what Eliot Spitzer did in a moment of “I want to be Governerism” is threaten to sue the credit card companies (Hold them liable) for accepting what he deems non-legal sales due to the Jenkins Act.
Why many of us chose not too fight to stringently is we are currently adapting the online casino’s methods of payments which will add a dollar or two to the average order but you would still be able use your credit card to make a purchase.
Now the above is how we where informed of it buy our tobacco committee not to be taken as 100% correct but its what we where told.
I tried to order from a business on a reservations, and was told that they couldn’t take Master Card or Visa, but could take Amex, Discover or a check by phone. This was at the beginning of January. All the websites blame it on Spitzer, but I have not been able to find a shred of information about how he’s doing it or why it would only apply to Visa and Mastercard and not Discover or Amex.
I should also mention that none of these sites are being shut down. I can still place an order, but I must use snail mail, and send a certified check or money order.
Yes we are doing the same thing actually, though we where told not to accept any credit card orders. Last month (Dec 04) it was just Mastercard and now its all of them. We are still open as well because our store caters to all 50 states not just NY.
The reason we where told not too take any credit card orders was our of the concern the customers orders would then be put at risk of being garnered by Spitzer ensuring your future tax bill. Its about the customers for most of us. (As we are not liable the customer is)
OTT Those of you ordering off the reservation consider yourselves lucky, as many people ordering from KY and other states are finding themselves with tax bills arriving in there mail boxes.
This statement may not be true in N.Y., it is not true if you applied it to Washington state. State and Federal courts have ruled in cases that apply to Washington Indian tribes that the tax free status only applies to those that are members of Indian tribes. My brother found out a couple years ago the hard way, he left an Indian smokeshop, was pulled over by a police officer who just happened to have an enforcement officer from the state tax commission along for a ride. My brother had his smokes confiscated and he drove away with a ticket for $155 for possession of untaxed cigarettes.
There is a bit of good news for Washington smokers though. Effective soon, Indian smokeshops will collect some of the state tax and the cigarettes will carry state tax stamps.
Almost every state has a untaxed cigarette law most are 1 to 2 cartons per adult in your vehicle or in your possession at any time.
As we inform our customers we will not turn over customer information, but they are responsible for paying any taxes according to thier state laws.
Yeah thats a loop basically letting them know if they don’t turn it in no one will even know.
OTT a little, but many reservations (such as the Coeur d’Alene reservation in Plummer Idaho) began or are in discussions to begin taxing cigarettes for the tribe itself.
I pay 13.73 per carton for my cigs.
No out of state ordering needed.
Tahoes.
How much do a good, quality brand-name cost there in NC? I got really excited last time I went to Kentucy and got Marlboro’s for $20 a carton.
Saturday will be my four month anniversary as an ex-smoker!
Yeah at a lot of the places here in WA state, there are two prices posted, for people “with their card” (their Res ID) and people without. This goes for gas sales too.
The cigerette post got my perverted wheels to rolling (despite them running on old oil). If Native American reservations can avoid paying sales taxes, and can have legal gambling couldn’t they also feature legalized prostitution (even if the workers were in many cases Caucasions who came to the reservations to ply their trade)? Is it a moral opposition common to the North American aboriginal peoples that prevents this? For that matter couldn’t they also feature legalized same sex marriages (which would at least allow the couples to go home and say they have been legally married even if their state won’t recognize the union it may offer some “full faith and credit” arguments even though the marriage was done by a sovereign state).