No Means NO You Sick Old Pervert!

[TVeblen]

*Originally posted by Broomstick *
**
As for banning the Asshole - banning someone from a public use airport is rather like banning them from a public street. Although buildings located along that street may be privately owned, the street itself is open to all. Likewise, while the man could be forbidden from entering a privately owned structure on the airport, actually banning him form the airport itself is not so easily done.
**

This premise is questionable at best. Unless you (or airport admins) have gotten qualified legal advice to the contrary, I beg leave to doubt it’s this cut and dried. People can be trespassed from publicly owned facilities. I run one, and it deals with constituonally protected rights. I HAVE gotten legal counsel, and the fact is that if people don’t conduct themselves appropriately they lose their rights to use that facility.

And why so dismissive of protective orders? The sheer fact that one is issued could very possibly solve the problem. So it takes some steps. Big deal. I greatly dislike your whole premise of attacking the moron, physically or otherwise. 1. There’s absolutely no need for it and 2. it’s stupid. He’s not without rights either, y’know. If he’s that arrogant, every time one of you get mouthy, rat on him to his wife, etc. you’re handing him leverage. It wouldn’t take much for him to claim harassment, slander, etc. It’s stupid to blithely hand this guy ammunition.

You don’t know his wife’s motives for staying married to him; you just know how you see it from the outside. How did she become remotely responsible for his misbehavior? If she’s made her separte peace with his behavior, or even if she IS a hardcore money-grubber, dragging her into this mess–which she didn’t cause and probably couldn’t prevent–would just make another enemy in his camp.

Fantasizing paybacks for bad behavior can be satisfying but I vehemently disagree with your “run the varmit outta town ourselves” bias. Do you want to actually solve the problem or do you want to swashbuckle? You can be contemptuous of the law but you can bet your ass that ignoring it will make you (plural) vulnerable to counterattack.

[TVeblen]

*Originally posted by Broomstick *
**
As for banning the Asshole - banning someone from a public use airport is rather like banning them from a public street. Although buildings located along that street may be privately owned, the street itself is open to all. Likewise, while the man could be forbidden from entering a privately owned structure on the airport, actually banning him form the airport itself is not so easily done.
**

This premise is questionable at best. Unless you (or airport admins) have gotten qualified legal advice to the contrary, I beg leave to doubt it’s this cut and dried. People can be trespassed from publicly owned facilities. I run one, and it deals with constituonally protected rights. I HAVE gotten legal counsel, and the fact is that if people don’t conduct themselves appropriately they lose their rights to use that facility.

And why so dismissive of protective orders? The sheer fact that one is issued could very possibly solve the problem. So it takes some steps. Big deal. I greatly dislike your whole premise of attacking the moron, physically or otherwise. 1. There’s absolutely no need for it and 2. it’s stupid. He’s not without rights either, y’know. If he’s that arrogant, every time one of you get mouthy, rat on him to his wife, etc. you’re handing him leverage. It wouldn’t take much for him to claim harassment, slander, etc. It’s stupid to blithely hand this guy ammunition.

You don’t know his wife’s motives for staying married to him; you just know how you see it from the outside. How did she become remotely responsible for his misbehavior? If she’s made her separte peace with his behavior, or even if she IS a hardcore money-grubber, dragging her into this mess–which she didn’t cause and probably couldn’t prevent–would just make another enemy in his camp.

Fantasizing paybacks for bad behavior can be satisfying but I vehemently disagree with your “run the varmit outta town ourselves” bias. Do you want to actually solve the problem or do you want to swashbuckle? You can be contemptuous of the law but you can bet your ass that ignoring it will make you (plural) vulnerable to counterattack.

[E-Sabbath]

That is the first Mod Triplepost I have ever seen. Also full of good crunchy advice.

[DrDeth]

*Originally posted by Broomstick *
**
I never said older men shouldn’t date younger women - and if I did I’d be a screaming hypocrit since in my marriage the man is considerably older than the woman. The problem is the girls have said NO and the Asshole refuses to listen!!!"

I don’t know how you want me to describe this guy - saying he’s young and skinny would be a lie. Perhaps you object to the term “asshole”? . Just because I describe an aged jackass as “gramps” does not mean I’m an age bigot.

The problem isn’t gender, it’s age. It’s more wrong in my eyes for someone significantly older to engage in harassment than someone younger. Young people are inexperienced and they make mistakes. A considerable amount of maturation occurs between 15 and 25. A person 60 years old - man or woman - should know better and have more practice in behaving in a civilized manner.

There’s also the problem that I think this guy is triggering the incest taboo - both girls have mentioned that going out with him would be (and I quote) *“would be like dating my grandfather”/i] I don’t know why he’s coming across like that to them - frankly, he’s never said much to me and certainly never put the moves on me.

Tell me, are you just crusing looking for someone to call a nasty ol’ bigot? Maybe the mod didn’t object because there’s nothing to object to. It just may be that an old man is hitting on two girls who object to that sort of attention. Does that mean ALL old men are nothing but nasty sexual harassers? Of course not! Does the fact that I witness this and state “he’s old and an asshole” mean I hate men, or hate older men? No. Get a grip.
**

I had no objection to the use of the word “asshole”, in fact, if you would read my post, you can see I called him that myself. I object to the fact that you continually use the term “old” as if there was something wrong with being old, or as if there was something wrong with an “old” guy dating a younger woman.

I also object to your bizzare allegations of incest- since the guy is not in any way related to the women he is harrassing.

I wasn’t sure after reading your first couple of posts, since you backtracked on you second, but after reading your defense of your ageist bigotry here- now I am sure- you are a bigot.

Since you are a bigot, and bigots have an unreasonable hatred of the group they hate, I must then doubt your entire story here. Everyone is getting on your hatred bandwagon, but they should have as much doubt as to your allegations, as we would about a Klan member talking about an “uppity nigger”.

Dudes- how do we know any of this really happened? Or is it all a product of blind bigoted hatred? Again, re-read the first post. Put “black” in place of “old” and “nigger” where she writes “old fart”, etc. Put “white” where she uses “young”. It then becomes blindingly clear our OP is a bigot.

First thing you should do is- get the beam out of your own eye, then we’ll talk about the mote in the other guys eye, OK?

[Skywatcher]

*Originally posted by Broomstick ***

Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni
Folks, if you’re going to plan assault and battery, I suggest, very strongly, that you NOT plan it on a public message board.

Yes, particularly since the person in the OP (uh… that’s me, isn’t it?) is trying to AVOID sensible… er… senseless violence and vigilantiism.

Tempting as whacking the bejeezus out of Asshole Gramps would be, we’re all supposed to be responsible adults, right? **

I’d take it a different direction: turn the tables on him. Must be some nice, young college guys around that could give AG the same treatment he’s giving the girls!

(regarding DrDeth)
Looking to pick a fight?

Certainly looks that way. Do you have a point, Doc, or are you just trolling?

[Shodan]

Originally posted by DrDeth -**
Put “black” in place of “old” and “nigger” where she writes “old fart”, etc. Put “white” where she uses “young”. It then becomes blindingly clear our OP is a bigot.
**

Well, OK, but if you replace “old” with “purple” and “old fart” with “invader from the planet Mongo” , it makes it sound like the OP is schizophrenic. It doesn’t really prove very much.

Originally posted by DrDeth -**
I object to the fact that you continually use the term “old” as if there was something wrong with being old, or as if there was something wrong with an “old” guy dating a younger woman.
**

Dating? No. Sexually harassing? Yes, it is worse for an old person to sexually harass a much younger person.

Women (generally) date men who are close to their age. Therefore it is much more likely that attempting to form a romantic relationship (to euphemize what the AG is doing) will be unoffensive or successful if the object of your attention is less than thirty years younger than yourself. Yes, it can happen otherwise, but it is out of the ordinary.

It takes a certain kind of person to persuade yourself that the young lady is only rejecting you because you aren’t trying hard enough, instead of because you are crude, stupid, offensive, and way out of the age range she prefers.

I agree - you seem merely to be looking for a fight. And your premise for that fight is somewhat closer to contemptible than only silly.

To interpret “he’s old enough to know better than this shit” as reason to dismiss sexual harassment as fiction? That is closer still.

Regards,
Shodan

[DrDeth]

Nonsense. If in the original post, the “asshole” has happened to be black, and the OP had mentioned it once- no one would have said something. But if she had carped about the fact of his race 20 times, and also of the “white” race of the "girls, you all would say our OP is a racist.

Shodan “Women (generally) date men who are close to their age.?” Women (and men) also GENERALLY date someone of their same race. Would you allow someone to castigate a black man for asking out a white girl?

Jeff- read the rules about “accusations of trolling”. Mods?

[Skywatcher]

That wasn’t an accusation, it was a question.

[Shodan]

[quote[Shodan “Women (generally) date men who are close to their age.?” Women (and men) also GENERALLY date someone of their same race. Would you allow someone to castigate a black man for asking out a white girl?[/quote]
Ask out? No.

AG is not asking anyone out. He is sexually harassing them. That is why I (and others) are castigating him.

An old person who sexually harasses a woman is an old asshole. A black person who sexually harasses a woman is a black asshole. A left-handed Serbo-Croat Wiccan who sexually harasses a woman is a left-handed Serbo-Croat Wiccan asshole.

See the commonality?

Sheesh.

Regards,
Shodan

[DrDeth]

Exactly, shodan. But if the OP mentioned the “black assholes” race, and the race of the “young white girls” something like TWENTY times, everyone here would either : A. openly wonder if the OP was a racist or B. Call her a racist.

The point is- she is makeing a RAL big deal out of his age- not just a casual mention. TWENTY TIMES in one post. Including perjoritives.

Thus, I conclude she is a bigot.

[RTFirefly]

I’ll second pretty much all of what Veb so eloquently (and frequently) said, but I’d like to come back to this especially:

*Originally posted by Broomstick *
As for banning the Asshole - banning someone from a public use airport is rather like banning them from a public street. Although buildings located along that street may be privately owned, the street itself is open to all.

You’ve said that with a great deal of certainty, but I don’t understand why the correct analogy isn’t to a public park (which people can and do get kicked out of) rather than a public street.

The street is part of a continuous web of roadways, and is therefore exceedingly difficult to exclude someone from, from a purely practical POV. As well as being destinations, most roads are parts of routes from a whole bunch of Points A to another whole bunch of Points B. For some destinations, all automobile routes there may traverse a particular road. Hard to ban someone from a road like that.

By ground transportation, the airport is a destination, like a park. Hard to see what’s so hard about keeping someone off the airport grounds.

By air, the airport is again a discrete destination, rather than being part of a continuous network. One can travel between airports on either side of Airport A without having to stop there. From a practical POV, a pilot can be told that he cannot land at a particular airport except in an emergency.

So practically speaking, the airport is more like a park, or like the sort of facility Veb is familiar with. Are you familiar with some legal categorization that lumps airports in with roads in this respect? It’s always possible, but it’s time for cites rather than assertions.

[guy_from_wpa]

Broomstick:

This Asshole Gramps wouldn’t happen to be a Doctor AND a pilot?

Have knowledge of the SDMB?

Call people bigots for no apparent reason?

[CanvasShoes]

I also object to your bizzare allegations of incest- since the guy is not in any way related to the women he is harrassing.

She didn’t say AG WAS committing incest, she said he was triggering the incest taboo in the two girls, and that they had in FACT stated “it’s would be like going out with my grandfather”.

wasn’t sure after reading your first couple of posts, since you backtracked on you second, but after reading your defense of your ageist bigotry here- now I am sure- you are a bigot.

Since you are a bigot, and bigots have an unreasonable hatred of the group they hate, I must then doubt your entire story here. Everyone is getting on your hatred bandwagon, but they should have as much doubt as to your allegations, as we would about a Klan member talking about an “uppity nigger”.

Oh brother. No one here is “hating” him because he’s old, they’re disgusted with him because of his behaviour. You must have taken a wrong turn into a completely different thread than the rest of us are reading.

Either that, or you’re one of those hyper-sensitives that invent bigotry where there is none.

As for him being old, and two young girls being “grossed out” by the idea of dating someone that much older. This is a natural reaction in younger people in many instances when it comes to dating. Brought about by nature, not bigotry.

And there IS such a thing as “out of one’s league”. The gnarliest thing this moron seems to be doing, is not only refusing to see that, but to be really pushing the envelope insofar as harrassing these girls.

[Lynn_Bodoni]

** Jeff Olsen,** if you suspect someone is a troll, do not accuse or ask them in public. Instead, use the “report this post” function, that’s what it’s there for.

DrDeth, do not look for offense where none was implied or intended. If you have any doubts, use the “report this post” button.

Lynn
For the Straight Dope

[Typo_Negative]

*Originally posted by Shodan *
**Well, OK, but if you replace “old” with “purple” and “old fart” with “invader from the planet Mongo” , it makes it sound like the OP is schizophrenic. **

Thanks for that. I needed a laugh!

[Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor]

What I find upsetting is that this rancid old asshole is making people here on the SDMB unhappy, & we never even met the bastard!

Find out his e-mail addy, & we’ll all spam him. Or send it to every Nigerian scammer that we aget a letter from.

[Skywatcher]

Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni *
*** Jeff Olsen, if you suspect someone is a troll, do not accuse or ask them in public. Instead, use the “report this post” function, that’s what it’s there for.**

Yes, I could have asked my question without the trolling remark but any self-respecting Doper would have realized the implication. Seems a bit silly to dance around like that.

[Skywatcher]

Originally posted by Lynn Bodoni *
*** Jeff Olsen, if you suspect someone is a troll, do not accuse or ask them in public. Instead, use the “report this post” function, that’s what it’s there for.**

Yes, I could have asked my question without the trolling remark but any self-respecting Doper would have realized the implication. Seems silly to dance around like that.

[Skywatcher]

Oops, sorry, should have looked to see if the first one went through. :smack:

[Broomstick]

*Originally posted by TVeblen *
This premise is questionable at best. Unless you (or airport admins) have gotten qualified legal advice to the contrary, I beg leave to doubt it’s this cut and dried. People can be trespassed from publicly owned facilities.

I am not a lawyer, and I am no more than a customer at the airport. Even if I went and asked about their stable of lawyers they have no reason to discuss these matters with me.

I base the difficulty of banning someone from a public-use airport on observation - I’ve seen the process of trying to ban someone and it is not easy, involves lawyers and money, and is not always succesful.

In part, my frustration arises from NOT being able to do anything about this situation myself.

And why so dismissive of protective orders? The sheer fact that one is issued could very possibly solve the problem. So it takes some steps.

It’s not the steps I object to. It’s the fact that it’s a piece of paper and nothing more. If this Asshole (and note the age reference has been dropped in this post) chooses to ignore the paper you might as well install it on the roll in the bathroom because it won’t stop his antics. ARREST might stop his antics, but they won’t arrest him until he breaks the order, which means these girls are going to have to suffer his attentions again. So I question how much “protection” it provides when nothing will be done until after it is broken.

Big deal. I greatly dislike your whole premise of attacking the moron, physically or otherwise.

Please go back re-read this thread. I, personally, am NOT advocting violence. I am greatly concerned that others might react violently, but although I understand having the desire to punch someone I also have the willpower to resist throwing the first punch.

You don’t know his wife’s motives for staying married to him; you just know how you see it from the outside.

You are correct, I don’t know her inner thoughts. I do know, for a fact, that she does know about his penchant for girls in their late teens because I have seen her publically informed of this, she admited she knew about it, and then promptly told the speaker to go to hell because what goes on between her and Asshole was none of his goddamned business.

How did she become remotely responsible for his misbehavior?

She’s not, of course - but that doesn’t mean she has any interest in confronting him. Hell, maybe she approves because it means she doesn’t have to fuck him. Or maybe he does it because she cut off his supply of poontang. Maybe they like threesomes. Maybe they like daises and peanut butter. But all those suggestions to “get the wife involved” or “inform” her of what’s going on are pointless because she just… does…not…give…a…damn.

Fantasizing paybacks for bad behavior can be satisfying but I vehemently disagree with your “run the varmit outta town ourselves” bias.

Excuse me. I opened this thread with stating I do NOT want vigilantiism to occur. Do not mistake my concern for any sort of advocacy of violence. Indeed, I have asked other posters to refrain from such speculations or suggestions.

Do you want to actually solve the problem or do you want to swashbuckle? You can be contemptuous of the law but you can bet your ass that ignoring it will make you (plural) vulnerable to counterattack.

There is not a goddamned thing I can do to “solve” this problem, and I think that is where this train ran off the track.

See, I opened this thread to vent my frustration about NOT being able to do anything about this situation. There is NOTHING I can do about the sexual harassment, other than to be a sympathetic ear to the girls when they need it. Or maybe a witness. I have NO INPUT WHATSOEVER in how the airport handles this - I am just another customer, not an employee or an authority of any sort. I have some friends muttering about teaching Asshole “a lesson out back of a hangar” - but other than verbal persuasion I have no control over THEM, either. It was just pure pissed off venting.

Then we have one jerk come in and basically acuse me of lying and making it up out of whole cloth (I expect accusations I’m not really pilot to follow, along with statements I couldn’t possibly live in NW Indiana, be female, or married, or of Earthly origin). THEN we have a whole passel of folks TELLING ME HOW TO FIX THE PROBLEM. Which is a response of some men to hearing someone vent - they think it’s a solicitation of advice. I mention the sexual harassment evidence gathering is well in hand multiple times but am still being admonished to set up video cameras and consult lawyers when I have zero direct involvement and/or authority. I mean really - WHAT do you think the reaction would be if the owner walked in the door and saw me up on a ladder with a powerdrill installing a video camera? What the FUCK do you people REALLY expect me to do here? THEN folks get pissed off when I point out that, no, I really don’t have any authority to installl jackshit at the airport, or hire a lawyer, or really do anything being suggested.

The only thing that is REMOTELY possible for me to do is to report a threat of violence towards Asshole to the police stationed there. A suggestion NONE of you came up with. And certainly, if I caught one of my friends making elaborate plans of violence while fondling a gun while sitting in his car you bet your ass I would say something!

The real issue here, for me, is NOT the harassment - about which, I repeat, I can do nothing but listen when the girls need a sympathetic ear - but my very real concern that someone might take things into the realm of lawless violence. Not that I would do such a thing, but that someone else might do it.

By the way - Asshole is a local, elected government official. I have no idea if he’s a lawyer or not. He is NOT a doctor. I have no idea if he even owns a computer, much less is on the Internet, the Dope, or a frequent vistor to Apha Centauri Prime. If, by some peculiar chance he sees this and recognizes himself I hope (pessimistically) he is shamed into proper behavior. However, even if he DOES read the Dope I doubt very much he would recognize himself, even if I used his real name and published his addresss because that sort, in my experience, does not recognize their bad behavior even when confronted. Does he call people bigots? No - usually he is one. He’s pretty fucking offensive every time he opens his mouth, and I avoid dealing with him whenever possible.

So - that is my last word on the subjects brought up in this happy little train wreck. Personally, I am somewhat amazed at the ratio of views to post on this, but what the hell, the Dope is entertainment to many. Ya’ll can go back to arguing about it if you so desire. I might even drop by to watch. But I don’t feel like getting into a pissing match on this one any more.