That’s really gross though. The last thing I’d want to do is rub the semen of some devil man on me. And you’d probably have to do it a bunch of times too because it’s not the most effective way to get pregnant. I’d rather just go the torture route.
Intercourse criticism is rampant in rad fem blogs and is understandable since less than a third of women orgasm from penetration. I always kinda assumed those women make up the sex-pos/fun fem brigade, or at least they aren’t calling intercourse a conspiracy of the patriarchy to put women in their place.
One point I read once that I thought was interesting is that for most of history it was known childbirth was incredibly dangerous for women, and intercourse means babies, yet men still insisted on intercourse instead of oral or digital. Men must love intercourse more than their partners, since we’re willing to endanger their lives for it. Then again would you want to go down on a gal who hasn’t bathed in two months?
From penetration alone. I don’t think many straight women who otherwise like sex stuff wouldn’t want it at all.
This rad fem stuff is new to me. Are some of them attracted to men, and admit it?
Why couldn’t you say that women must love babies more than they fear childbirth, or that women must love intercourse more than their own lives? Why do you assume it was the *men *who “still insisted on intercourse instead of oral or digital?”
It’s pretty old, '60s at least. I like to read rad fem blogs every once in awhile. Wiki says rad fem means recognizing the patriarchy, but most fem does that. By the time you reach PIV=rape you’re already way past the line though. That’s crazy territory even in rad fem land. I’d say rad fem is a general recognition that men are pretty screwed up in the head (violence, perversions, need for domination) and rarely have women’s interest at heart unless it helps them get in their pants or avoid the consequences thereof (e.g. the caring liberal feminist man who supports the pill, abortions, and free love).
Rad fems tend to hold a dim view of sex positive fems because they see them as male pleasing sell outs. Almost always against prostitution (legalized or not), and usually anti-pornography. Think circular firing squads within circular firing squads.
If you mean reaching down for clitoral stimulation to help then the usual response is why not just do that since that’s what actually matters? All you’re doing is giving in to the man’s sense of intercourse entitlement. Personally I’d agree with you, but I’m a dude so…
Most of them are straight, or bi. Lesbian separatism is certainly a thing though. The usual joke is that straight women will never be free of the patriarchy because they fraternize with the enemy.
Because women were subservient to men and their desires (especially their husbands) and were treated like property or children. Many were married off to much older men when they were barely pubescent. Spousal rape wasn’t even illegal in the UK until 1991. Even ignoring all that, men insist on penetration as a general rule. It’s the main event for them.
There would be larger social pressures at work though, like farms needing tons of kids for labor. Or that if everyone in a country eschewed intercourse except when they wanted children they’d probably be conquered by a country that didn’t. But on a personal level it’s interesting I think. Still might apply in the more backwards places of the world.
Yeah… 
Not a happy read.
I can follow the thought process… somewhat, in that men typically orgasm easier from PIV than women do, meaning that for some couples, PIV is somewhat phallocentric. That being said, tongue on clitoris is quite gynocentric (clitoricenrtic?) and yet some of us so-called “rapist” men enjoy this particular activity at least as much as PIV simply because hearing one’s partner build up to and attain climax is as (or more) psychologically satisfying and intimate than other kinds of sexual behaviors.
Here’s my issue: I’m more than willing to satisfy a wide variety of sexual desires a woman has (and I’m not alone in that notion), whether I’m personally able to climax from the behavior or not. Surely it has occurred to this woman that other women feel the same way about returning such sentiments to their male partners?
And obviously women are capable of feeling sexual desire for non-penetrative sex, and this does not victimize them… Or does it, according to her? Does having a male partner stimulate you to your orgasm, in a non-penetrative fashion, also constitute rape? Does wanting to have your clit played with by your partner turn you into a victim, too?
I am also offended by the idea that all men simply want to use her body as a sperm canister:
I know for sure I am not alone in experiencing a sharp decline in sexual desire if my partner is not interested, is not attracted to me, or is any way hurt by an experience we share, or is unable to feel pleasurable sensations when doing something. What kills the mood faster than an accidental fingernail scratch in a sensitive area? Pain and discomfort are typically not turn-ons for most couples.
It makes a vast difference if my partner is not experiencing something as sexual. If they’re not, I have no interest whatsoever in continuing. I *cannot *be alone in this. I’m not physically capable of the damage she’s suggesting.
At least in my case, the following paragraph *completely *loses me, as it’s total bullshit.
I’m 30 now, and haven’t caused pregnancy yet, and have spent my adult life seeking not to do so. Many of the women I’ve met (thankfully not a majority) have been marriage-and-children minded to the point that I was convinced they weren’t in love with me, but the idea of marriage and motherhood. In at least one example, my suspicions were confirmed when an ex married the person she dated immediately after me, rapidly, and began getting pregnant.
I’m sure in many couples, the women can be the *aggressor *in seeking pregnancy, and through absolutely no pressure or coercion from me. But I guess male-dominated society is to blame for her delusions of wanting to pass on her genetic material freely. It’s all a male plot against her brain, which is unable to comprehend or resist. How insulting to would-be and actual mothers everywhere. They never wanted to be moms, it’s all a male plot to enslave her womb.
This much, I can reject completely as invalid, in many or even most cases.
Here, I am less inclined to ridicule. This sounds as though one of the following is true:
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She is asexual or lesbian, and finds the PIV act to be a violent and vile act which she would never, ever wish to experience, and/or
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was either pressured into it by social convention or actually and forcefully raped once.
In which case, I’m horrified for her, and hopes she heals and never experiences anything like that again, sincerely.
This is not how a *typical hetero *woman views PIV though, and I’d imagine women in relationships with men would get the urge to tie us down and pleasure themselves in whatever manner they wish if they weren’t getting their desired level of intimacy. But then again I’m just a dumb rapist male, and all women hate my penis, apparently. So maybe I have it all wrong.
Men apparently never shave themselves to look nice for women, exercise, engage in plastic surgery of any kind to remove unwanted things, or have their foreskins cut off almost solely because of appearance, and there are apparently no financial burdens on men whatsoever when it comes to dating and maintaining relationsh…what the fuck is she talking about?
Walking is technically unnecessary, too, and can result in injury if not done properly, and you know, cuts and wounds can get infected. So I guess we shouldn’t walk or reproduce voluntarily ever.
Skip a bit, because much of the rest is the assertion that no woman would ever want a penis inside of her if it weren’t for that male propaganda, which is not backed with even the suggestion that this assertion should be tested.
Next:
Actually, the negotiation takes place constantly within relationships which are not the classic definition of rape (as opposed to her Newspeak version thereof). Women are often in the position of power, as they can determine what happens during a date, how far things progress physically, and what things are done when physical things occur.
Ironically, to use an analogy, in a different sexual situation where a partner is explicitly dominant and the other is submissive, it is often the *submissive *who dictates what happens, what the limits are, has a word which always means stop, and all of this is discussed at length ahead of time, giving the submissive near-total control of the situation while experiencing the fantasy sensation of loss of control, even if that loss of control is simply an act- a game, an illusion. The submissive is actually almost completely in charge. Either gender is not necessarily the submissive or dominant partner, nor is such a dynamic always or even often invoked.
Any woman with even the slightest assertiveness to get what she wants from sex will control what happens. The only exceptions to this rule are when she finds a partner who does not respect her boundaries, and unless she is bound and kidnapped, she always has the ability to simply terminate such a relationship and find a more respectful partner.
This writer is completely wrong about females not having control over the relationship, the sexual acts themselves, and most especially about the negotiation aspect. In my experience and almost all that I’ve heard about, the woman has gotten what she wants from her man, or her man has at least attempted to give her what she wants to the best of his ability.
She is absolutely correct about abusive relationships, in which cases, I have complete sympathy and concern for the victims. They are victims even if they choose to stay, because a person’s psychological state can become crippled by these forms of abuse. But she is assuming all relationships are abusive when they are clearly not, and that women never have control, when they clearly do.
This seems false to me. Somehow I get the feeling some women somewhere desire PIV all on their own. It’s sort of my only hope because I’m not always the most… confident proposer of such activities.
I promise you, the door that leads outdoors and to singlehood and freedom is always open. Opting out is pretty much an option that will never go away.
Not only that, we’ve been quite helpful in assembling a wide variety of clitoris-pleasing toys which allow women to pleasure themselves without ever actually needing a male tongue, finger, or penis if they don’t want those things. And I assure this writer that we’re not forcing them to put dildos into their own vaginas when they masturbate.
I feel like I’m a pretty evolved, caring, progressive, fem-friendly guy. And I’m not asking for a gold star or a certificate of achievement for this… it pretty much should be the bare minimum standard for any male that is a potential mate for a woman, and isn’t, much to my chagrin, or I’d be more popular.
I feel like this woman has been a victim of something terrible and can no longer find the joy in anything. Which makes me feel empathy for her and wish her life becomes more positive. I also feel like a good tongue-on-vagina experience with a very patient partner *might *be helpful for her, but since I am just a dumb, unevolved, oppressor rapist male, I’m obviously not the man for the job. And if she’s asexual, she wouldn’t be interested anyway. Which is completely fine. A person can be not interested in sex with guys. I’m not, and I see nothing wrong with that.
Where I balk is the idea that all men want nothing to do with women except inflict upon them a painful dick violation followed by impregnation and forced child-rearing. I can only guess that this conclusion has been reached by some awful traumatic event in her life which I cannot bear to imagine.
I am simultaneously offended, saddened, and sympathetic. So I don’t know what to feel. I could certainly be mocking certain things a lot more mercilessly, but I think this person has endured enough, and perhaps should never have to speak to males or be near them again if she doesn’t want to. Perhaps an all-female asexual “freedom colony” is in order. Whole communities where men aren’t allowed. I’m completely fine with that. As I said, the door to leave is always open, and no one is forcing you to participate in the society that involves men and women coexisting. Run off and be free, beautiful bird. Fly, fly.
I don’t see why I have to pay you half my stuff so that you can leave, though. You can just go and, like, make your own money, buy your own land, construct your own housing, just like we did. The injustices of living with males (while I am sympathetic, as I have to coexist with them too) I am afraid are not convincing enough to sell off my possessions and *gift *them to you like a complete sap without so much as a thank you note. Besides, if you want half my shit without earning a dime of it, you could just marry and divorce me for the cheap thrill of it all, as some of your more heartless women out there are wont to do.
Meanwhile, I’m reasonably certain there are some women I wouldn’t be victimizing by engaging in the tongue and clitoris tango, so I’ll just shop around for those, thanks very much. I promise you they won’t ever even touch my penis without indicating that they very much want to do so on their own. Fair do’s?
I keep trying to find the right words to say this but philosophy and women’s studies classes were over twenty years ago. And now after suffering five years of intense sleep deprivation due to my child I feel like a lot of college is lost.
But there is a tendency in radical feminist academia and in the beginnings of the gay rights movement in academia to say the exact opposite of the worst things that are believed about women or LGBT people. It is a way of turning the status quo on it’s head, shocking people to the point of supposedly seeing how ridiculous the patriarchy is.
And so there are academic writings about how all women are born lesbian and that is the natural state of things, going on about how the patriarchy has socialized women into liking men.
It’s turning the idea that straight is natural and normal and that being a lesbian is a choice on it’s head.
This I believe is a similar technique. I’m sure there’s a word for it. It’s not exactly irony but related to it… Someone help me out.
I remember having a discussion in ethics class about this kind of writing and I said I think it’s based on anger and that it just pushes people further away. I honestly don’t believe that anyone truly in their hearts believes these kinds of things. It is simply turning everything upside down and backwards.
I think it’s a philosophical device, useful for academics to pat each other and the back and say “oh what a break through” but in the real world I don’t think it does much to persuade anyone of anything.
But then I’m just a woman who really likes penis.
Ah, yes, classic academic… trolling? A plausible explanation, though no less annoying and no more helpful as you figured it yourself.
Well, you’re a pig-lizard if you don’t pay attention to her satisfaction, and you’re a pig-lizard if you appropriate her satisfaction to increase your own (yes, I’ve seen that argued). You see, since she knows you’re a pig-lizard, she knows everything you do has a pig-lizard motivation, she doesn’t need to consider anything else.
Of course not, there’s no such thing, only women who have confused the lesser violence of submission with actual pleasure.
Well yes I think it is trolling. That’s the word.
Well done. I was thinking “mental masturbation” but that would be too sexual for them.
You know what is really sad? They are girls who can’t go to school. There are kids being molested in cults in our own country, there are women who have really been raped who need help. And yet these people sit around gazing at their own navels writing ludicrous crap thinking they are doing something.
Rather a strange approach for anyone in academia: “The hell with searching for the truth - let’s spin some deliberate, bald-faced lies and see what comes of that.”
I dunno, I looked around the site a bit, one of her articles is about how, when she gets angry at women for not seeing what she finds self-evident, that’s it’s because the men have colonised them with a type of antibody that deflects The Truth. She had an elaborate chart with various lines and arrows that reminded me of what I’ve seen from schizophenics.
ETA, not that the first part of your post isn’t sad, yes indeed.
Why yes, I think we can all agree, if I experience pleasure from sex and so does the woman, I am evil for having experienced the pleasure.
Worse, if all I am doing is trying to please HER, and my penis is flopping downward absolutely untouched, and she’s really enjoying herself, and somehow, her enjoyment and pleasure brings me enjoyment, I am a hateful, hurtful, uncaring, abusive pig.
Nothing’s worse than someone who is happy about pleasuring you. The very idea.
Men never care about pleasing their women, and when they do (even though they never do) it’s still terrible because they don’t feel sad or violated by it, they actually *enjoy *making women happy.
How dreadful!
That’s correct. I mean, she’s thought of everything. I can’t please myself with my penis, or her with my penis, and I can’t just please her however she likes, hell, I can’t even just leave her the hell alone. All of these choices mean I am evil.
I can’t win, so why should I even try?
I dunno, when I’m laying down and my lady is using my mouth as a Sybian, I feel like she’s in the dominant position.
Not that I mind, you know… being pig-lizardly as I am. Even such a thing is a sick and cruel thing for a very willing man to do to a very willing woman.
What a poor, deluded woman, for wanting to have another person please her body in every which way.
…
I’m off to other websites now for… unrelated reasons.
The one with the stick figures? I’m glad you understood it, because I was like, WTF?
Oh link me to that. I enjoy Order of the Stick, so this should be the same thing, right?
Forgive me Guinastasia, I didn’t mean to imply that I had understood it.
OK now this is either exquisite big league crazy or Sokal-level application of Poe’s Law…
The way I vaguely understand it is that “colonized women” are those who still associate with men? Or something.
Man or woman, if your lover gives you anything that colonizes you, see a doctor immediately.
ETA: what does the Radfem woman say about a womans desire to use a dildo? Is that urge the result of more brainwashing? Tangentially, do females naturally desire something inside them without being told? Or do they have to learn about it from someone or something else?