No more dogs in Petsmart

[THespos]

I live in New York City. Dogs seem to be allowed in many of the stores here - not just PetCo and Petland Discounts, but in other stores, too. Dog owners tend to assume that if there isn’t a “no dogs allowed” sign on the front of the store, they can bring their leashed dog in.

I don’t mind if there’s a “dog-friendly” store out there that decides to use the ability to bring a dog inside as a differentiator. I just won’t shop there. But if the practice gets too widespread, it is somewhat of a chafe.

Sometimes, I won’t go into the PetCo on 86th and Lexington because I know I’m going to have to dodge dogs and their owners on the way to the fish department upstairs. Every dog owner in the city seems to have one of those retractable leashes. Rarely have I seen it used properly. I’ve seen dogs in the store stretching the limits of those leashes and ending up 25 feet from their inattentive owners. I’ve had big dogs jump up on me while I’m waiting in the checkout line. That’s usually not a big deal, but if you’re holding fragile baggies filled with water and feeder fish, it’s annoying.

I go to the Petland Discounts on 86th and 2nd for frozen fish food all the time. Here, the aisle that leads to the back of the store is very narrow - Two people have trouble getting past one another without knocking product off the shelves. When one brings a dog in there, it’s bad news. I’ve tripped trying to step over leashes, been scratched and jumped on, plus I nearly squooshed a tiny rat-like dog when I was carrying an armful of supplies up to the counter and didn’t see it. And the dog’s owner had the audacity to tell me I should pay more attention.

While I think the idea of a dog-friendly pet store is cool, us fish lovers should have at least one pet store where we can avoid having dogs underfoot.

[ChuckForbin]

I wouldn’t be surprised if PetSmart starts disallowing dogs. I just read recently (sorry no specific cite at the moment) that Home Depot gets sued 180 times a week. This is mostly for stuff falling off of shelves. That might be something that is hard to avoid, but the Petsmart situation is more easily avoided.

I wonder of they put a sign on the door that says “Floors may contain dogshit - enter at your own risk” if would help them in court.

[ChuckForbin]

*Originally posted by THespos *
** I go to the Petland Discounts on 86th and 2nd for frozen fish food all the time. **

Just curious - what do frozen fish eat ?

[porcupine]

The assholes who let their dogs take a dump in Petsmart and just let it sit there are the same irresponsble asshole pet owners who let their dogs take a dump on other people’s lawns and just let it sit there, and who let their dogs take a dump in public parks where kids play and just let it sit there. Morons like that are the ones who ruin it for responsible pet owners. There’s a nice park a few block from my house where I can’t legally take my dog, even on leash, because of assholes who don’t pick up after their dogs.

[Velma]

I love going to PetSmart with my dog. When she was a puppy she did pee once in the store, and it never even occurred to me to leave it there. There are clean up stations everywhere, just get the spray and some paper towels and clean it up. Really, if you have a puppy you are so used to that anyway it’s practically ingrained.

I would be really disappointed if they stopped allowing pets in the store, it’s really fun to go there. I would probably still shop there if they didn’t, though, because they have the best prices on the food she eats and they have the kind of treats she likes. I also prefer to support them because of their policy not to sell pets and their support of adoption agencies and help in placing animals.

We do have another pet store in the area (Pet Supplies Plus - is that a national chain?) that allows pets in the store. I can’t imagine that this is the first time this has happened to a pet store or that they didn’t plan for this type of situation, so hopefully this one (or two) lawsuit will not force them to change their policy.

[Ferret_Herder]

The lady was overreacting and not paying attention, and the pet owner wasn’t paying attention or was completely unmannerly. I wonder if this woman would have sued a grocery store if the shopper ahead of her had knocked a grape onto the floor, and she stepped on it and slipped? Produce sections can also have a lot of water drips on the floor due to those misters - pick up a bag of celery to put it in your cart, and you get a small puddle from the shelf to the cart as the water runs off.

I would sometimes bring my ferrets to the pet stores that allowed it, so I could see if they liked certain toys. I’d dangle the toy above their heads, and if their attention focused on it rather than everything else going on around them, that was a good sign. I also brought paper towels and a ziploc bag to clean up after their little accidents. They rode in my cart as I held their leashes firmly, and looked around at everyone and everything. People seemed to get a kick out of seeing their little faces peeking up over the edge of the cart.

[ENugent]

I’m on the side of everyone that says that PetSmart probably wasn’t negligent. But I still agree with what the appeals court did, from a legal perspective.

What they did was to say that the woman had alleged enough facts that it was possible that PetSmart was negilgent. She hasn’t won yet - she now gets to try to convince a jury that in fact, it was the store’s negligence that caused her to fall. I don’t think a jury is actually going to be terribly sympathetic to her in this case, at least not if PetSmart has a half-decent lawyer. But maybe the shit really had been lying there for days, creating a hazardous condition. She’ll be given an opportunity to prove that, for what that opportunity is worth.

(IAAL, but not in Kentucky. I don’t know if there are special rules there that make this post incorrect. No one should rely on it as a qualified legal opinion of any sort).

[Archergal]

*Originally posted by Sublight *
**What I want to know is, what kind of pet owner sees their dog shit on someone else’s floor, and then walks away and leaves it there? **

Most of them, apparently.

Don’t get me started about people not picking up after their pets. I have 4 dogs, and I clean up after them. Yes, sometimes this means I carry a bag of poop for half a mile when we’re out walking, but THAT’S PART OF THE PRICE OF BEING A RESPONSIBLE PET OWNER!!

The PetsMart we visit now has cleanup stations for folks whose pets have accidents in the store too.

[deborak]

My dog pooped in Petsmart once. I was absolutely appalled and so embarassed - she’d been in a bazillion times before and knows better than to poop indoors! Quite honestly, I’d never thought to bring paper towels as some have mentioned, and this Petsmart didn’t have clean-up stations, so I did the next best thing - I went up to the front and summoned a store employee.

So, you know, that means the poop was alone, unmonitored, during the time it took for me to get some help (all of a minute or two). Someone could conceivably have come along and slipped in it. What was I supposed to do, form a human barricade around the poop and pray that a store employee ventured along at some point before the store closed?

Accidents happen. And, really, I wouldn’t be averse (although I wouldn’t be thrilled) to Petsmart being found liable for her medical bills. But that’s about it - I hope she’s not going for pain and suffering and emotional distress and otherwise trying to jack this accident up into the high figures.

[beagledave]

*Originally posted by deborak *
**

So, you know, that means the poop was alone, unmonitored, during the time it took for me to get some help (all of a minute or two). Someone could conceivably have come along and slipped in it. What was I supposed to do, form a human barricade around the poop and pray that a store employee ventured along at some point before the store closed?
**

Yell “fire in the hole” and throw your body on top of the offending excrement.

Ms. Jenkins and her ilk deserve no less valor and sacrifice.

[Skywatcher]

*Originally posted by ski *
I generally try to avoid going to Petsmart when buying supplies for my aquarium, but for some things they’re the only place I can find what I need. The other day I was in there and had to make my way through essentially a sea of dogs!

Was this on a weekend? If so, you most likely encountered an animal rescue group’s adoption site. There’s a local group that at a certain Petsmart every other weekend. There should be a sign in the front of the store you were at listing when they do adoptions and avoid the store on those days.

[Robb]

The Court of Appeals opinion is available at their website, but I haven’t figured out how to link directly to the opinion. The case is Jenkins v. Petsmart, NO. 2001-CA-002256-MR.

Since Petsmart encourages owners to bring their pets into the store, it should (in the language of Lone Star) reasonably anticipate that a customer shopping for pet supplies might not see the droppings left by animals accompanying other patrons. The unique circumstances of this case dictate both thatthe risk was not open and obvious to Jenkins and that Petsmart nonetheless (and regardless of her awareness or lack of it) had an ongoing, continuing duty to anticipate the very harm to which she fell victim. Again, to quote Lone Star, a proprietor is relieved of liability unless he “should anticipate the harm despite such knowledge or obviousness.” Id. at 492.

We believe that this language from Lone Star is dispositive of this case. We are compelled to agree with Jenkins that Petsmart is not entitled to judgment as a matter of law under the obvious-risk rule merely because Jenkins might have seen the excrement had she been looking. Additionally, Petsmart’s duty to anticipate the unique harm to which it directly contributed by store policy was not relieved or offset by a notice requirement on the part of Jenkins. Petsmart simply could not avoid the ongoing nature of its duty where it contributed to creating the danger.

Therefore, whether Petsmart breached its duty to Jenkins and/or whether Jenkins failed to exercise ordinary care for her own safety are issues appropriate for resolution by a jury rather than for disposition by means of summary judgment.

(The court underlined, bolding is mine.)
It appears that, because Petsmart allows animals in their store, they might be responsible for what the animals do while they are in the store.

[Lissa]

*Originally posted by Sublight *
**What I want to know is, what kind of pet owner sees their dog shit on someone else’s floor, and then walks away and leaves it there? **

Are you kidding me? I once saw a * child * take a dump on the floor of a store. She’d been telling her mother she had to “go” for at least ten minutes, in a loud, insistant voice you could hear all over the store. Finally, the little girl dropped her pants and squatted in the middle of the aisle, leaving a respectably sized pile in her wake. The other shoppers, including myself, stared, mouths gaping. She ran over to her mother, who was still browsing, and said tearfully that she had “gone poopy.” Her mother just nodded, and said mildly, “I see that,” and wandered off down another aisle.

I thanked whatever gods may be that I was not employed in this store, but since no one else seemed to be making amove in that direction, I went up to the customer service counter, and said, “Excuse me . . . this sounds odd, I know, but you may want to get a broom, or something, because a little girl just defecated in the Housewares aisle.”

The employee stared at me. “What? A little girl? Just pooped on the floor? In the * Housewares * aisle? You’re joking, right?”

I said that I wished that I was. The employee gave a mighty sigh, and slowly made her way back through the store. I did not follow, but I wished that the employee would scoop up the poop, and dump it in the mother’s purse, saying sweetly, “I think you dropped this.”

[beagledave]

*Originally posted by Robb *
**
It appears that, because Petsmart allows animals in their store, they might be responsible for what the animals do while they are in the store. **

Huh.

Guess no more kids in the grocery store then? God only knows what kids can do or knock over…that the store will be responsible for.

[mouthbreather]

*Originally posted by monstro *
**I dunno…I suppose it’s because I assume dogs that are brought indoors are house-broken. **

My dog took a shit in Petco once, and she is house broken. She’d been in Petsmart and Petco many times before – aside from the “accidents will happen” idea, there was an adoption going on. We got her from an animal rescue group and she had been to a couple adoptions (as an adoptee) before we got her When she saw the lines of cages and all the people, she kind of freaked out and just started shitting. I went to the counter and got a bag and cleaned it up myself. I wasn’t mad at her, I just felt bad for her and I make sure moving forard that it isn’t adoption time when we are headed to Petsmart/Petco.

I kind of wish that the “panic/freak out shit” was acceptable for people as well. When I dont wake up in time, or get stuck in traffic, then I’m late for a meeting --I go in there and get chewed out–I could just climb up on the boardroom table and…yeah. You get the idea.

[bjohn13]

*Originally posted by Rooves *
**
Suppose the woman went to the emergency room because she was truely injured and they wouldn’t accept her insurance because of where the injury occured. What if the bills amount to big money? Shes supposed to go broke because she knew the risk she was taking? **

First time poster…I hope I did that right…
Personally, I think the above quote is the best point yet in the thread. I’ll get to that in a round-about way.

First of all, I always thought it was commonplace for pet stores to allow people to bring their cats and dogs along for a fun ride. We don’t have a PetsMart around here. However, we have four other stores (two are regional chains) that do allow pets (Pet Food Warehouse, PetCo, The Mutt Hutt, and The Pet Shoppe). The only alternative for pet owners who do not wish to associate with other people’s pets would be a department or grocery store. I naturally took the assumption that since I was going into a store which allowed animals to roam semi-freely, I had better watch my step. Perhaps that was just an ingrained habit from some time spent as a cable installer, but it seems to me that feces is an object that should be avoided at all costs. That leads me to believe that this lady intentionally stepped in the doo-doo in order to have a basis for the lawsuit. What else could she have been doing? Reading the back of her bag of beggin-strips? Talking on her phone?

I always see dog dung if it is on the ground or floor in front of me. I don’t ever remember stepping in it unless a yard was so littered with it I had no alternative.

But perhaps the lady had some sort of peripheral disorder (or olfactory, as someone else pointed out. I don’t know enough about eye-ology to really know the difference). Perhaps she didn’t see the pile because she couldn’t. Then perhaps she has a good cause to make the claim that someone was negligent.

However, I have to seriously wonder about the legitimacy of the claim, though. As I mentioned earlier, there are four different pet stores in my town that all allow pets. Two of them have carpet, so the thought of someone slipping on the tile doesn’t apply. However, the two larger stores both have disclaimers on the front window that remove them from liability. I have memorized the one at PetCo because it is impossible to miss as one enters. It reads:

Pets allowed: As long as there owners behave. We at PetCo ask for all pet owners to be responsible. This means promptly bringing any accidents that may occur to the attention of our staff.

Yes, I have brought my dog to PetCo. He is quite housebroken. In fact, I never even had to train him. He desired to go outside from the day I brought him home. However, the experiences at PetCo were a bit much for him…or should I say he felt an urge to mark his territory. He has had two accidents in the aisle of PetCo (the same aisle both times). The first time I was unprepared, but offered to clean up the mess. Ever since, I have brought a liberal supply of paper towels with me just in case such an accident was to occur. It is a habit that should be ingrained in every pet owner. When I walk my dog, I feel it is my responsibility to clean up the mess.

I do not view a visit to PetCo as any different. If my dog makes a mess, I will clean it up. So, to paraphrase…yes, someone is resonsible for the mishap the poor woman experienced. Unfortunately, that someone should not be PetsMart. It should be the negligent pet owner who pays the price. However, I feel that PetsMart, in their desire to keep customers, will bite the bullet and end up paying the woman what she wants. The question will only be…when will PetsMart decide that it is not cost effective to allow pets into the stores.

[beagledave]

*Originally posted by bjohn13 *
**
But perhaps the lady had some sort of peripheral disorder (or olfactory, as someone else pointed out. I don’t know enough about eye-ology to really know the difference). Perhaps she didn’t see the pile because she couldn’t. Then perhaps she has a good cause to make the claim that someone was negligent.
**

So the “good cause” to make a negligence claim on the part of Petsmart is because of her visual issues/problems? But if she had acceptable vision, then her claim would not be a “good” one?

**

So, to paraphrase…yes, someone is resonsible for the mishap the poor woman experienced.

**

Why is someone “responsible” for her accident? Is that you are in life…if an unfortunate thing happens to someone, somewhere…someone else is automatically “responsible” for it?

[bjohn13]

Why is someone “responsible” for her accident? Is that you are in life…if an unfortunate thing happens to someone, somewhere…someone else is automatically “responsible” for it?

Only if an unacceptable act (leaving dog feces on the floor) directly contributed to the misfortune of someone else.

[Annie]

My fish would never crap on Petsmarts’ floor! But just in case he did, the branch I go to has a ‘clean up station’ with wet wipes,baggies, gloves et al. And instructions on how to clean up poop. Is this just in Canadian stores?

[Ruby]

*Originally posted by Lissa *
Are you kidding me? I once saw a * child * take a dump on the floor of a store. … She ran over to her mother, who was still browsing, and said tearfully that she had “gone poopy.” Her mother just nodded, and said mildly, “I see that,” and wandered off down another aisle.

:eek:
Jesus H. Christ. This is friggin unbelievable. And we wonder why children are so misbehaved.

And speaking from the insurance company’s point of view, this case is likely NOT why businesses have insurance. They have insurance to cover them for situations they are legally liable for (ie negligent). Just because someone gets hurt on the premises does not mean that the business should pay for it. Just because you may be hurt on the premises of a business does not automatically make the business responsible for your medical bills and pain & suffering. Shit happens and it’s not always someone elses fault.

This decision is correct. The jury, not a summary judgement, is the appropriate way to resolve this kind of issue. Unfortunately, juries can take the sympathy path rather than the logical and legal path and still award her damages. It’s called the “deep pocket”. Petsmart has (likely) a large insurance policy and “Injured Customer” is just a regular joe so Insurance Company Must Pay. It’s a doctrine written somewhere, I guess.