Really?
Why not?
No A/C, right?
And…?
Why not?
Thanks
Q
You’re right.
What I was surprised at is the almost uniformity of building materials (teutonic efficiency at work, I guess) there. Just about every roof seems to be made of orangeish tile, for example.
And virtually all the windows I saw were of a somewhat interesting design- a “three way” type that can be closed (duh) or tilted inward slightly to allow ventilation without letting rain in, or opened completely, all controlled from one swivel latch. Clever.
And no screens.
As far as AC goes, it doesn’t get insanely hot there like the US, but it does get sticky and uncomfortable at times.
If you’re moving to Germany, or just about anywehere else in Europe, I’d recommend taking a roll of screening material along to rig up your own screens.
Another interesting aspect of German house design is the near complete absence of closets. I can’t vouch for this but I’ve been told that it’s because German real estate taxes are calculated based on the number of rooms in a house, and closets are counted as rooms. What most folks do is use wardrobes, large furniture pieces with hanging space inside, as an alternative.
I’d think this is more climate-based than country. I lived in half a dozen places in the San Francisco Bay Area, and none of them had window screens. The places ranged from relatively new houses (~70’s but recently remodeled) to relatively old apartment buildings (~20’s maybe?). Some had A/C, some didn’t. None had screens, but I often had the windows open anyway. The temperatures are normally mild and the bugs aren’t really a problem. On the plus side, it’s much more pleasant to sit in the window dangling your feet and dribbling beer on pedestrians if you don’t have to contend with getting the screens on and off.
OTOH, in Texas window screens are required as one of many barriers against the giant blood-sucking bugs.
In the mid eighties, I had the pleasure of working with a Czech architect educated in Western Germany, here in British Columbia. He was appalled at our backwardness in home building technology. On one home in which we built, he imported $60,000 Cdn of Shuco windows from Germany. These were vinyl, when the vinyl window industry was in its infancy here. I was amazed at the hardware technology as described earlier in this thread. And yes, there were no screens imported that I can recall. This particular home was being built for a German ex-patriate.
I also recall that the architect lamented the difficulty in acquiring a particular technology available in Germany that allowed one to plug in a little device in an electrical receptacle and insert into the device on a periodic basis, tablets,which the electical current would convert to a harmless odourless gas that would deter insects from entering the home.
I mention this last point as a possible explanation for the lack of screens in Germany, although I find the explanation incredulous.
Not in Germany, nor Switzerland (at least not normally). The summer we spent in Switzerland had an abnormally hot August, day time highs around 30-34 degress Centigrade. Unfortunately we hadn’t quite figured out European living, so it got extremely hot in our flat. At night we would be tormented by mosquitoes. Fortunately we never hit a particularly hot summer in Germany, and kind of figured out how to do better at moderating the internal temperatures.
I asked my Germany colleague why they didn’t have screens, he thought that they didn’t need them. He said there were not that many mosquitoes that got in and it was a small price to pay for having the fresh air. Germans are big on fresh air and outdoor stuff, maybe because it’s such a rare commodity there. He also didn’t have little children while he still lived in Germany. My kids were very small and the skeeters would go straight after them, mostly leaving me alone. It is not so nice to see your kid covered in welts, though.
You forgot to mention those really cool exterior metal hideaway shades that are so common in Germany. Those are really cool when you’re an MP working nights and need to sleep during the day. We called 'em “vampire shades”; they’re strong enough to keep vampires out and they’re opaque enough to keep them safe inside during the day, too.
I don’t understand.
What’s so strange about not having screens on your windows?
I don’t have screens.
But that’s me
German window technology is quite different than what is found in the US. My mom is from a tiny town near Frankfurt and all the houses I have seen have the tilt in or open completely mechanism mentioned above. I have also seen a skylight-type window that opened that way or rolled completely out of the way onto a frame on the red tile roof. You could bathe under the stars. Sigh
I also agree with sewalk about the cool exterior shades that block both light and noise really well.
On the other hand, the lack of screens is, IMHO, a pain in the butt. Most of my time in Germany has been during the summer and it can get hot, but the flies are a bigger problem. Most Germans have sheer white curtains in front of their windows. I assume they are largely for privacy, but they also foil the flies a bit. micco is right about the foot dangling, though, although with me it was cherry pit spitting rather than beer. 
We had the same type of multi-position windows in Germany and I have been singing their praises to everyone I know in building trades here in the US.
As for the A/C, the office building I worked in had A/C based on your level in the company. The top dogs had A/C, the serfs dn’t. I found that quite amusing.
I think we call them “Noseeyums” here in the states, but I once visited my Aunt and Uncle in what was formerly East Germany and when I wanted to stay up late and read in my bed I was informed that I could do so and keep the windows closed and roast or I could open the windows and then have to turn the lights off so that it wouldn’t attract those pesky little flies. It was then I missed the screens in my Mom and Dad’s Georgia home.
I agree about the style windows, however. I love them too.
As regards air conditioning, yes it’s a status symbol of sorts, and I was once told that certain stores will not sell chocolate bars because of their tendency to melt if the store isn’t cooled by a/c. I am sure that is no longer the case , however.
Thanks
Quasi
Wow… I had no idea the Bundestag met even at night. Talk about German efficiency! 
Most of the houses in Nepal do not have screens. Heck, many of them don’t have windows, but that’s a whole other thread.
I imagine that this is in large part due to the extreme poverty wherein folks worried about buying enough rice and lentils to survive haven’t the inclination to worry about nor the moey to purchase screening.
On the other hand, in the Nepali homes I have stayed in that did have screening, the holes were large enough to let the mosquitos fly right in. Why bother? The big flying bugs aren’t likley to hurt you, but the pesky little carriers of malaria, dengue fever and Japanese encephilitis are a huge probelm. Perhaps the screens are a just status symbol.
What many people do is to completely douse the room with some god-aweful Saudi-made insecticide that kills every living thing in minutes. I do not even want to know what is in that stuff. I made the mistake one time of entering a room shortly after it had been sprayed and spent the next 10 minutes in violent, horking spasms trying not to cough up my intestines. All around, screens would be a better deal.
I just got back last month from my trip in Germany and Austria and I can testify about both the wonderfulness of the windows and the absence of screens. I visited Munich, Berlin, Frankfurt, Heidelburg, and Innsbruck, and I didn’t see a single screen anywhere. My take on the screens was that insects did not appear to be a problem. The weather is cool throughout most of the year, which appears to keep the mosquito population down. Also, typical German efficiency makes sure that there are no cans, tires, etc lying around to collect water (the breeding places of mosquitos in urban areas).
I met with a lot of facility managers in Germany, and they are almost fanatical about fresh air. Even 20+ skyscrapers have windows that can be opened for fresh air. The lobby of the Hypovereinsbank in Munich had windows that automatically opened and closed to regulate the temperature, instead of an air conditioner. It must have been hugely cost-effective.
With all those praises, however, I have to point out that the outside temperature never really got above 85 degrees. In fact, the first part of our trip was unseasonably cold, so we didn’t need to keep the windows open at night. Once I got back to Philadelphia and its 95+ degree heat wave, those beautiful windows didn’t seem quite so appealing…
Folks, I grew up in Germany. I moved to the U.S. of A. 20 years ago and learned to appreciate the wonders of A/C and screened windows. (My first dog in the U.S. of A., a Golden, never appreciated screened windows. She was so scared of lightning storms that she jumped through any open window, screen or not. She systematically took them out and took me back to the Fatherland - at least as far as screens were concerned).
I travel often to Germany. Right now I sit in my skivvies in my ultra efficient German apartment, last floor under a flat roof. It is frigging hot. Read my handle and you know how I feel.
Do you really? I’ll take you on a tour:
On the absence of screens: I grew up near a river and a swamp near Munich. Screens? What screens? Massive outbreaks of Small Pox went unnoticed, because everybody was blistered from top to bottom in summer. (Now I live in the Hamptons on Long Island, and we are scared of West Nile.)
On the superior German window technology: I’m in a fairly new building. My windows and doors to the balconies are those double paned beauties that tilt and pan and open and close and slice and dice. The very same cool three way design mentioned here. Invented by Rube Goldberg’s German cousin. Most of mine are shot already. Every time I go back home to West Nile territory, I go nuts, because some of the windows, and at least one of the balcony doors won’t close. Once I nearly missed my plane. Now I wrestle with the superior technology the night before departure. In West Nile Land, we have those windows with the crank and the lever. Once a season, some get stuck or jammed. There’s nothing I couldn’t fix with a screwdriver and WD-40. In Germany? Forgetaboutit. You need new parts, installed by a licensed SGWTS (Superior German Window Technology Spezialist).
On the abscence of cans: They mostly prefer to drink their beer out of the bottle with a heavy duty deposit. Cans and one-way-bottles (separated by white, green and brown glass) are in those marvelous recycling containers you find at every corner. Some upstanding citizens recycle glass in the middle of the night, damn the noise, it’s the environment, stupid! And there must be a law somewhere that the containers must be emptied at 4 in the morning:
“Kling, Klang, Bang: Get up you Germans, time to do your recycling duty again! The container is eeeeeeeeeeempty!!!”
On the absence of A/C: It’s considered a work of the devil. I don’t know why, but again, take a note of my handle. I’m pointing it out, because here it goes mostly unnoticed. Sometimes, when I remember my youth, I yearn back to my old girlfriends who smelled like chicken soup. I always remember one of them when I open the can. Very sexy soup. We have full A/C at the office. Because I vanted it that vay. I have no A/C at the apartment. I post to SDMB to get my mind off the heat. Never above 85? Well, our thermostat sits at 76 in West Nile Territory (and at the Centigrade equivalent in Duesseldorf) and the Duesseldorf A/C must work harder at the moment. Well, guess my U.S. waterfront property (West Nile be damned) is more expensive for a reason: You save energy costs …
On the uniformity of buildings. Teutonic efficiency, my eye: If you want a building permit, you need need to hand in the plans first. Then you go to church and pray while a low ranking public servant makes the lonely decision whether your house is as per generally accepted community standards or not. Who’s standards? His standards. You want a black roof when everybody has red? DENIED. That’s why everything looks alike: Same guy, same (lack of) taste. I am not making it up. I confess, the outbreaks of Small Pox were a bit overblown. But the bureaucrats with their small brains beat Small Pox any day.
On the absence of closets: You’ve got that right. There are none. Never heard of them. My ('merican) wife was shocked to the bones when we moved to Germany for two years. WHAT? NO CLOSETS? WHAT’S WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE??? (You are just scratching the surface, babe.) Absence of closets because of higher property taxes? Wrong. German taxes are so frigging high that property taxes are negligible. (Oh, they collect those, too. But you don’t fee’l 'em in the grand scheme of things.) Think everything here is driven by logic? There must be a reason? Wrong. They don’t have closets, because their parents didn’t have closets, and their grandparents didn’t have closets, so why should they? By the way, they also install their own kitchen in a rental and their own washer/dryer. When they move, they rip the kitchen out. Usually of no use in the next place, but they have a strong sense of justice: You didn’t pay for the kitchen. You won’t get the kitchen. They take the washer/dryer also. This, finally, is a culture thing. My wife had a house in Georgetown, Washington, DC. Once, she rented it out to a charming German couple with the requisite two cutey-pie blonde heirs. When they moved out, they had ripped the kitchen out, they had taken the Maytag washer along with the dryer (will do them much good in Germany), they had removed all light fixtures (bulbs will explode in Germany), and they were gone.
Wonder why I left the country?
I sometimes wonder why I’m coming back all the time.
Even the Deutschmark ain’t what it used to be.
Wow, B.O, thanks for the native braindump.
Questions:
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(you seem to have missed this answering all the other trivia in this thread) WHY don’t the Germans have screens on the windows? Another poster mentioned the Teutons are nuts about fresh air, but air seems to make it through the screens on my windows (and still stays fresh).
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When you mention ‘ripping out the kitchen’ I assume you mean the appliances (stove, fridge), not the cabinets & sinks, right?
Tell me these folks aren’t totally nuts – I’m a German, tho’ 9 generations removed, I’d hope for better from my distant relations.
B.O.> The deposit on the bottles isn’t that bad, considering a case of beer (10 litres) runs about 8 bucks including deposit. That it’s several orders of magnitude better than Yankee brew makes the whole argument academic, I imagine.
You’re right about the ‘zoning’ type permits- if you want to paint your bungalow blaze orange? Ain’t gonna happen. Every house seems to be pastel shades of either pink, blue, white, or brown.
What’s the deal with the doorknobs, or lack thereof? They seem to use not a doorknob, but a type of handle, and the only way to lock the door from the inside is using the key. Seems like a big fire hazard to me, if finding keys is ever a problem, there is no provision for locking the door without the key. I suppose one of those chain devices could be installed, still kind of strange, though.
(as long as we’re on German oddities…)
Ya know, the other thing I found odd when I stayed in Germany was the bed coverings. In the US (and UK and lotsa places) you get the standard issue: a bottom-sheet, top-sheet, blanket, bedspead. Use as much/little as you like to stay warm.
In Germany (at least in the 4 hotels where I stayed in 4 cities), you get a bottom-sheet, and a one-person duvet. Possibly a top-sheet, but not usually. On a double-sized bed, you get 2 duvets, one each.
Apparently, if the weather is warm, especially if there’s no top-sheet, you’re expected to unzip the duvet and dump out the innards (a cotton or down insulator of some sort), then use the deflated duvet as a blanket/top-sheet. At least, that’s what my wife and I started doing when we stayed there in July – the temperature was about 65-72 at night, so we could either sleep under the duvet and sweat furiously, or exposed and freeze. We quickly figured out the duvet-modification maneuver and slept better. The duvet-cover was washed daily, so apparently this was expected to be a combo sheet/blanket for the bed.
I’m sure I’m being more than a bit provincial, but it seems much more flexible to just have layers of bedcoverings that can be peeled off/on in stages. But that’s just me.
Main topic:
Why don’t they have screens? It will remain a mystery, FÜR IMMER! Probably, because nobody thought of it. Please keep this thread a secret, because if they ever read it, Germany might look for a reason and if they don’t find one, they freak out. And we really don’t need that again. Quasimodem, you assume all resposibilities.
I mean, gimme a break, fresh air fanatics: Of course does air move through screens. They smoke like chimneys and have all kinds of fancy hardware on their windows which block everything, small caliber ammo, fragmentation splinters, air… They have the aforementioned rolling shutters (metal or wood, they usually are only used in hurricane territory over here … ), killer blinds inside or out.
I have, waitasec, let me check … very fine metal mesh crankdown blinds at the outside, and the usual venetian blinds at the inside. That stuff at the outside could qualify as screen, if it would be a bit wider … but it’s … sorry for the interruption, I checked again … it is tightly woven metal, and even if wider, it wouldn’t do any good as screen, because there are big gaps on the sides. It’s just a fancy way to keep prying eyes out. It’s an iron - make that stainless steel curtain.
Maybe they don’t have any screens, because bugs are verboten, and nobody told the bugs. Or they don’t have any screens, because the German Hausfrau used to air out the feather puffs every day, draped them into the open window, and the screen would be in the way. Or they simply didn’t think of it. SCREEN? VE DON’T NEED NO SCREEN! IN GERMANY, EVERYTHING IS SCREENED BY THE GOVERNMENT! FOR VAT DO YOU SINK VE PAY TAXES?
On large office buildings, they have vertical blinds that open & close by themselves, depending on the sun. Odd when you work in these buildings: Oops, there it goes again. Ah, yes, I believe as per work rules, everybody must be able to see a window at the workplace, forget cubicles. And windows needed to be the open & close type by law, even in a skyscraper (this could have changed, or they could have excempted REAL skyscrapers, I don’t follow that stuff).
If there would be a law requiring screens, they would be on every window next week. Of course, the animal rights people would complain, because it could mean the end of some endangered bugs.
This IS a dangerous topic. I mean, I post it from Germany they have this big monitoring network and someone says: Screens? Hmmm. Not that we really need them, but screens would create jobs, in heavy industry, in distribution, private contractors. We need a National Agency for Window Screens. Screen Standards, DIN Norm. So screens. Window screens. Public health aspect. Fresh air for everybody.
“Frau Müller! Call the Statistische Landesamt! How many windows in Germany, and how many square meters total. Now. Frau Müller, you really should have these numbers when we need them. Be better prepared next time.”
Now let’s see: Total square meters, times … “Frau Müller, we also need the average price for screen material. Yes, you heard right. No, I don’t know who makes it. Ask the Wirtschaftsministerium. They need the exercise.” Add to that installation, times 16% VAT - why didn’t we think of this earlier. “Frau Müller! Why didn’t you think of this earlier??”
And suddenly, this country will be screened-in.
I probaby can pass-off the steel curtain as screen, top floor, it certainly looks like screen from below. They might use helicopters, though.
Side dish:
What do they rip out of the kitchen when they move? Everything, including the proverbial kitchensink. When you move in, you are looking at some dingy tiles and a cast iron pipe with a rag in it where the sink goes. It’s all yours. You waltz down to the nearest kitchen center and you order: EINE KOMPLETTE NEU KÜCHE! It’s nuts, but true. Ever wondered why most of the fancy built-in kitchens come from Germany? Mass customization. Huge market. People need new kitchens all the time. Or, for lack of funds, they have a kitchen that did fit to the T in the old apartment, but looks verrrrrry strange in the new one.
Now I have to admit, in very new buildings things change slowly. A new studio apartment usually comes with a teensy-weeensy kitchen and that stays. Or you make a deal with the previous renter and buy his kitchen. If you like it. If not, he takes it with him. And you start with a clean slate and a totally empty kitchen. Live your dreams! Get that bitchen kitchen!
I also have to admit, when we lived in Germany, we did find a large apartment with closets. In every room. We took it on the spot. It was the owner’s apt. in an apartment building, top floor, duplex, and he was married to an American. She divorced him, he moved out. Everybody admired the closets. No screens though. ZERE MUST BE A LIMIT SOMEVERE!
In my case, it was different. My wife said: “I’m going back. You can come with me if you want.” Wasn’t the lack of screens. It was everthing. I decided, it was a wise move on my part also. We’re still married after 20 years, and we have screens on every window and on every sliding glass door. And we are doing the laundry in the '82 Kenmore of the previous owners. And we only slightly changed their kitchen. I mean, why dump a perfectly good Subzero, if a new stainless steel front will do?
True. True. They practically give the stuff away over there. All breweries are losing money, but they crank out the stuff like there’s no tomorrow. The aim is to bankrupt the other brewery first. My friends are shocked when I take the to a 'merican supermarket, and they see me pay like 7 bucks for a sixpack of Heinecken. (Bought for them.) They could never live here. I can, gave up the stuiff long ago.
It can happen, but you would get arrested. Or the house would be blown up. And no zoning permit. Building permit. You put in a new window: New permit. Any change on the outside: New permit.
I know what you are talking about, but this does change. I have (wait a sec, checking again …) knob on outside, handle on inside. No need to lock. You found something positive! There is progress!