No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath.

[Morgenstern]

Didn’t he leave his weapon in the kitchen when he went off to the bathroom to take a dump? Fatal mistake.

[Bosstone]

@Morgenstern

Didn’t he leave his weapon in the kitchen when he went off to the bathroom to take a dump? Fatal mistake.

Wrong scene.

[jasg]

@Lumpy

Was Holmes in fact wearing body armor? I’ve read claims (from pro-gun sources, so who knows?) that the media misidentified a tactical vest- basically a jacket with lots of handy pockets and loops- as body armor. True or not?

In this press conference video (at 10:05) Dan Oates, the Aurora Chief of Police says ballistic helmet, tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector, a groin protector, tactical gloves and a gas mask.

The Denver Post reported that* “Oates said the shooter wore a ballistic helmet, gas mask, throat-protector, tactical vest and pants – such complete protective gear that responding officers almost mistook him for a member of the SWAT team”*

[Bridget_Burke]

@Morgenstern

I assume you’d choose to die over fighting back. Fine, the world needs fewer dildos.

Really, you don’t want to reemphasize the “guns as penis substitutes” meme in this thread, do you?

Just take your Viagra & go back to your video game…

[dngnb8]

@Steve_MB

The little girl with the calculus book, obviously.

Yo K, she was about to start somethin

@Morgenstern

Well, you got me there. Most states don’t make concealed permit candidates face off in gunfights with an adversary in full ballistic armor toting an AR-15 with a 100 round mag, tossing tear gas, as part of their training.

Tactical vest is not full armor. It is not bullet proof. It merely organizes your ability to get to your needs. i.e. lines up magazines, etc. The mask prevents the smoke from getting to you, it doesnt protect you from bullets. It wasnt tear gas, it was a smoke bomb. A view obstruction device. I have yet to see any report saying it was tear gas

@Morgenstern

Czarcasm, Seriously, are you being deliberately obtuse?

Par for the course. He gets this question a lot of these boards.

@Farmer_Jane

It’s a movie theatre. It’s dark, it’s loud, and it’s smoky. The guy is walking up and down isles spraying bullets. It would be quite hard to get a good shot at him. The greater chance is that you’re going to miss.

I’d like to see if those macho guys who would’ve taken down the killer would’ve been OK diving over women and children or helping them with their injuries while the freakjob ran loose. That, imho, is a hero.

There were military in the audience and some of them died. That did a lot of good. The officers responding didn’t shoot, either, but he surrendered.

Not sure where youre getting your info, but that isnt what happened.

@kwimby

So you imagine the shooter is strolling through the aisles while committing this atrocity?

The miscreant in question was standing up in the middle of the screen, backlighted by it, firing out into the frenzied audience. It would have been an easy head shot from anywhere in the first 5 rows with anything bigger than a pocket pistol. He chose this venue because of Cinema 16’s no-guns policy and the likelihood there would be no armed opponents among his well-massed victims.

Yep. So in essence, the people on the boards want to give him easy pray. Ive been shot at before, more then once in fact. I wasnt allowed to carry a weapon. I dont appreciate being the duck in a duck shoot.
Some examples of armed citizens protecting their lives successfully
> In 1997, an assistant principal grabbed a .45 from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued a teen shooter at his Mississippi high school after two students were shot and seven were injured.

> In February 2007, an armed off-duty officer was able to fend off a shooter in a Utah mall until police could arrive (source). Later that same year, a Colorado woman with a pistol permit took down a gunman after a shooting spree that spanned 12 hours and two churches left five people dead.

> Last year, a pharmacist with a concealed carry permit was able to stop two armed robbers who had taken customers hostage at his Michigan drugstore.

> Just last month, a legally armed passerby was able to end a vicious attack on a woman in Georgia simply by brandishing his weapon and threatening to use it .

Cite available in other thread

[dngnb8]

The Police report does identify the vest as tactical ballistic

[Lumpy]

@Lobot

The choices in reality are…

[ol]
[li]attempt to leave the theatre and possibly survive[/li][li]return fire, increasing the complexity of the situation and dramatically reducing the survival rate for all involved[/li][/ol]
As someone else said, you’re basically saying you’d rather increase your own (imagined) odds of survival by endangering everyone. Some fucking hero you are.

The odds of survival are already in the toilet; might as well hope someone nails the bastard.

[dngnb8]

@davidm

What I want to know is how he came in the fire exit. Aren’t those supposed to be locked from the outside?

I heard a report that he had bought a ticket. So he goes in during preview, leaves door ajar, arms himself, re-enters

[Covered_In_Bees]

As has also already been said several times already.

[Bosstone]

@Covered_In_Bees

As has also already been said several times already.

Hell, he can’t even remember his own posts, you think he’s going to pay attention to anyone else’s?

[dngnb8]

@Inigo_Montoya

Ok, I’ll hang up the smartass hat for a second to address this.

There are 75-100 people on your side, and one on his side. The advantage is his: if it twitches, he shoots it. As for your position: if it twitches, you must identify friend/foe and deliver ordnance as appropriate upon an armored target with limited vulnerability–and you don’t even know about the body armor yet; and no way in hell are you getting headshots with a pistol with any kind of certainty except under optimal conditions against a well-lit, stationary target. Handgun training will direct your aim to a body shot. You fire, hit armor, he returns fire, you die. You have a decision to make, he doesn’t. Unless you can approach from outside his field of vision and snipe him, he wins every time. And because you can’t risk popping your head up to look at him and check on his position, because he’ll spray your locale when you twitch, you’re left with only an ambush strategy and laying low. If he goes on the hunt, which at that point is the only way for you to see him, you see each other at the same time, again you lose.

Theonly way to win this one is for everyone to recognize, immediately, that he’s not part of the film, that he’s not just some troll spraying blanks, that he has a finite number of shots before reloading, and that he needs to be rushed by everyone in the theater. That sort of realization takes some time to get to, which is why it can work against hijackers on a plane that are not actively killing anyone, and not in a movie house under attack. Your position is all bravado, dude. Logistically there can be no hero. This guy could probably have gotten away if he’d just left the car running, popped in, gassed and sprayed a few magazines, and then left the same way he entered. Because nobody would even be able to feel their own feet for several minutes after that kind of terror. You need to get yourself into some danger I think.

The only thing here that I would add is this

He isnt returning fire, he is already firing. The video says 51 injured (1 in the adjoining theatre) out of 75. That is a 68% hit ratio. Of those hit, 23% died, and that number can still go up because 2 are critical.

Essentially, 1 in 4 people hit, died and 2/3rds were hit.

Im sorry, but if those are my odds, Im firing back.

[Lobot]

@Lumpy

The odds of survival are already in the toilet; might as well hope someone nails the bastard.

70 people were shot out of maybe 300. 1 in 4 odds of survival is still better than 3 in 4 when armchair Rambos start firing.

[Quartz]

@black_rabbit

Dear guy I work with, cousin, dude from the bar, friend of a friend, Louie Gohmert, and every other gun toting pussy who seems to think that they could have taken out the Aurora shooter with their ersatz penis:

No, you couldn’t have.

I don’t know whether I could have taken him out, but I do know that I’d like to have had the option of trying.

[dngnb8]

@Lobot

70 people were shot out of maybe 300. 1 in 4 odds of survival is still better than 3 in 4 when armchair Rambos start firing.

300 people were in 4 theaters. He shot in 1 theater (1 bullet penetrated the wall injuring 1 person in a adjoining theater)

[Lobot]

@Lobot

70 people were shot out of maybe 300. 1 in 4 odds of survival is still better than 3 in 4 when armchair Rambos start firing.

If that’s true, you got me there.

Still, you fucking gun fetishists are welcome to fire blindly at each other, but the trouble is that the other people don’t get a say when they’re caught in the crossfire.

[Guinastasia]

@Morgenstern

I assume you’d choose to die over fighting back. Fine, the world needs fewer dildos.

So stop acting like one.

[Morgenstern]

@Guinastasia

So stop acting like one.

I understand you know more about them than anyone else on this board.

[Czarcasm]

@straight_man

It would be a 1.5:1 dildo:asshole ratio, assuming about even numbers of men and women. [/PEDANTRY]

I bend over corrected.

[Mewl_Dear]

Scene one: the joker pops up throws smoke bombs and starts firing.
Scene two: morg the mighty jumps up and starts return fire.
Scene three: every sane person with a gun in the theater shoots morg the mighty.
Kind of a short movie.

[Czarcasm]

@Mewl_Dear

Scene one: the joker pops up throws smoke bombs and starts firing.
Scene two: morg the mighty jumps up and starts return fire.
Scene three: every sane person with a gun in the theater shoots morg the mighty.
Kind of a short movie.

Given that the police at first thought he was S.W.A.T., I’d say that was a better than even chance. I have yet to get a response to my question as to what happens when more than one person pulls out their firearm in a dark and smoky theatre, and the one that is the actual suspect is also the only one that looks like he is supposed to be doing the firing. How do y’all tell the good guys from the bad guys? When you whip out your weapon in self-defense, how does the armed guy a few rows down and over know not to shoot you?