I wonder if a shooter could stop a reasonably fit 25 year old who rushed him from an angle he wasn’t looking at from 30 ft away. I would think unless a bullet hit square in the head he could still make the tackle. That is about 2 seconds. I sometimes wonder if we shouldn’t mentally condition ourselves to rush the shooter at the first sign of gunfire. Especially if we have an odd angle.
It’ll never happen. All our kids play soccer these days.
So brush past him and he will fall to the ground in agony.
You’ve never actually been shot, have you?
Best method for “tackling a shooter” is the same as the method for taking down 9/11 style terrorists: don’t let them near a [plane/gun] in the first place. Terrorist attacks have not been stopped by superior force, but by denying them access to the tools they would use.
The fact that [anything] is classified as a tool, or even can be misused as if it were a tool, does not entail public right of access to it.
I wouldn’t advise anyone to be a hero. You will most likely die.
Myself, I doubt I could do any good but I may try. My life loss wouldn’t be a great strain on many people. So I think if I were close enough to the shooter, I might see myself going for it.
According to reports, at least four people resisted the shooter in the Talahassee yoga studio incident, as well as one passerby, who was then pistol-whipped. I agree that anyone who isn’t behind cover when the shooting starts might as well rush the shooter, but it doesn’t seem to improve the odds much.
I think you’re right.
Go! I’ll wait here.
If someone was willing to rush an armed gunman I would definitely be willing to hold their handbag while they did it.
Um… I’m not a “reasonably fit 25 year old” for starters? Neither are most people. Even if I could be classified as “reasonably fit”, or reach that exalted state, I’ll never be 25 again no matter what I do.
And, as already mentioned upthread… you’ve never actually been shot, have you?
Your solution might take out a shooter or two… but at the cost of a lot of death and maiming. How about we make guns less available for the crazy and the rabid to acquire?
Or even heard shots fired in anger. All these armchair Rambos have one thing in common, they’ve never known real fear. They’ve never been in a situation that has gone from zero to 100 in a split second. They’ve never had a moment where they realize, “I could actually die right now.”
In 2002 a gunman crashed an Israeli bat mitzvah part and opened fire with an M-16, killing 6 guests and wounding several more. The birthday girl’s father saw him pause to reload, at which point he and her uncle tackled the man, disarmed him, and with the help of other guests proceeded to beat him to death.
Bear in mind, though, that they were Russian immigrants, and they had been drinking.
I’m right behind you. Go on 3.
That gets into the ALICE training that they give school kids now. You hear joking about ‘throwing staplers and erasers’ at a shooter or schools asking kids to keep rocks nearby to throw at shooters.
It’s a last resort, but if you have an active shooter standing in your classroom, there’s no point in sitting around waiting to be killed. The ALICE method tells you to incapacitate the shooter in any way possible. Throwing a laptop or backpack at the shooter may give someone just enough time to rush the shooter and knock him down, or better yet, get the gun away from him.
Again, it’s a last resort. They methods states that you first do anything you can to flee. Don’t lockdown the entire school. If the shooter is in one wing, people on the other side can escape. After that, you can then hide or lock yourself in a room. It’s only when you have a shooter standing over a classroom, that they suggest fighting back.
That’s very true. A while back, my store got held up. From where I was I could see someone with a gun on the cashier. There is a gun or two where I was (in an office), but they are just the owner’s personal (target shooting guns). I’ve never changed my mind on a subject so fast. I’ve never had an issue with guns, but in a matter of seconds I went from “I’m not sure if I could shoot someone if I had to” to having the a loaded gun in my hand and knowing that I wouldn’t have a problem shooting him if I had to. I did, however, stay hidden where I was and called 911, but he would have been in for a surprise if he came looking for people.
Luckily, it was all over in a few seconds. He grabbed the cash and took off. I ran out to the store to find my cashier a mess, as would be expected, and another employee that looked like a statue. I asked him a few questions and got nothing. He was totally frozen.
When the cops got there I mentioned that and one of them said it’s very common, about half the people freeze up during a robbery and that no one knows how they’ll react until they’re actually in the situation.
So, yeah, whenever I hear someone (IRL/on the internet) talk about how they’d shoot this guy or punch that guy etc, I tend to take it with a grain of salt unless they have some real life experience.
I asked a police officer I know this question, and she said “The best thing to do is get behind the shooter and throw something like an article of clothing on their head.” The shooter will not be expecting this.
Great idea! He’ll not be expecting poopy pants over his head.
The advice in formal active shooter response training classes is run, hide, fight.
Rapidly fleeing the scene should be your first choice, if at all possible, as it gives you the best odds of survival. Find the nearest exit, or make one by throwing something heavy through the nearest window. If you’re caught out in the open and you’re actually being shot at, run away in a zig-zag pattern, which requires constant re-aiming by the attacker, making it harder for him to get a hit.
If fleeing is not an option, then hiding gives you the best possible odds of survival. Close and blockade the door, turn off the lights and be quiet.
If the attacker is about to make entry to your room, then hiding is no longer an option, and fighting gives you the best possible odds of survival. Wait by the door, ideally out of the immediate line of fire. If heavy objects are available, have them in hand to bludgeon or throw at the the attacker when he makes entry. If nothing is readily available, try to tackle the attacker from the side at the knees, which are a a bit of a weak point.
If you’re thinking that those “fight” instructions seem like they have pretty low odds of survival, you’re right; they are only marginally better than cowering in the corner and passively waiting to be shot. Fighting is the option of absolute last resort; it is the thing you do only after it is no longer possible to run or hide. You will never hear formal active-shooter response training that advises fighting as a first option.
Sitting in your office right now? look around you. If you had to run, where’s the nearest exit (hint: it may not be the one you entered through)? What could you use to break a nearby window? If you had to hide, what could you use to block the door? If you had to fight, what objects are available that could potentially disorient or disable an attacker?
Run from a knife. Rush a gun.
I’ve been in my share of very scary situations. If you’re lucky, your mind gets incredibly focused very quickly and you can engage in some very quick calculus: I’m in a club with about 200 people, my odds are good if I can just get some distance between me and the lunatic. Fire exit here I come! Also, bear in mind that people are having drinks, dancing, flirting and not at all expecting trouble. In my experience the biggest talkers are always the biggest pussies.