That’s about as valid as denying Christian anti-Semitism by saying that a lot of Christian heroes/founders/saints were Jewish.
That’s a ridiculous comparison. Those “historical” figures started out as Jews, because they were born before the glorious word of Jesus could possibly have reached them, and then they SAW THE LIGHT AND CONVERTED.
As for this thread, it is exactly correct. I’m a liberal person living in a large vocal liberal family in a liberal community with liberal friends, and the amount of anti-semitism among all the people I encounter, and all of their friends-of-friends (as measured scientifically via Facebook) is close to absolute zero. In fact, there’s far more complaining-about-people-criticizing-Israel than there is criticizing-Israel.
I find it less than convincing that the right-winger’s professed love of Israel ultimately comes from the expectation that they are being used as a channel to usher in Jesus’s return. But hey, maybe they can prove me wrong. Maybe tomorrow a bunch of evangelical fundies will say that Jesus was a false prophet and we still have at least a few hundred years between now and when the real messiah shows up. Maybe they’ll start converting to Judaism any second now
Did Jesus convert to Christianity?
Kinda
Plenty of people on the left are anti-Semitic. Plenty of people on the right are, as well. (Google “cuckservative” for a recent outpouring of anti-Semitic and racist sentiment on the right.) It’s troubling when criticisms of Israel are tagged as “anti-Semitic,” but it’s also troubling when criticisms of Israel are anti-Semitic. Distinguishing the two can be quite difficult.
This.
A person with the bumper sticker “Wherever I stand. I stand with Israel.” is someone I just know I’m going to have major disagreements with and it has fuck all to do with their ethnic or religious background.
read that article from the British “Socialist Worker” newspaper.
If foolsguinea et al don’t find that anti-Semitic, then there is a basic disagreement on what anti-Semitism is.
If leftists are antisemitic and Canada is a more leftist country than.the U.S., we’d expect to see more antisemitism on Canada than in the U.S.
Now, if the premise is actually that left wing Americans tend to be antisemitic, at least you’re starting from a position that is less obviously wrong.
As for leftist anti-Zionism vs. anti-Semitism, it is best summed up by Nathan Weinstock, a leftist French activist who wrote the book “Zionism: False Messiah” in the 60s. This is what he thinks now:
“I have prohibited my publisher from reissuing Zionism - False Messiah. Let me add that, while I naively believed - an error of youth - that this book could fuel a constructive discussion leading to Israeli-Palestinian coexistence, I came to realise that this had been unforgivable naivety on my part: the book served only to salve the conscience of avowed and unconscious anti-Semites.”
And of course, Benny Morris, the revisionist leftist historian whom leftists used to love:
“The demonisation of Israel is largely based on lies - much as the demonisation of the Jews during the past 2,000 years has been based on lies. And there is a connection between the two.”
A lot of American intellectuals are Jewish. When they attack Israel the right will accuse them of being self-hating Jews. Kinda funny.
I’ve read a decent amount of blogs from all over the political spectrum and I observe more obvious anti-semitism on the right. Most white nationalist communities either hate the Jews or see them as what’s undermining the West. I rarely see such rhetoric from the left. Usually it’s focused on Israel policies. Right political culture in general isn’t a fan of Hollywood or New York.
Dog whistles:
- liberal Hollywood
- greedy Wall Street bankers (the left uses this more though)
- East coast elites
- Bolsheviks
The left allies themselves with Palestinians not to stick it to the Jews in particular but because they love being seen as helping oppressed groups and underdogs. Politics makes strange bed fellows though, when you see liberals who will one moment viciously attack fundamentalist Christianity but then rush to defend fundamentalist Muslims when they’re doing worse things. It’s understandable, you see, because they’ve suffered the slings and arrows of Western imperialism. You do see some noteworthy libs attacking Muslims as well, though they get a lot of pushback when they do.
The general rule is that when liberals are impinging on someone’s integrity, they don’t tend to blame it on their race while conservatives do that by design. Charges of liberal antisemitism is silly and shows that some posters really really have a problem with seeing their own flaws in their opponents. “I do it, so liberals must do it too!” they think to themselves.
You can couch it all you want: It’s antisemitism. Every time some propaganda arm of the Palestinian cause spreads a hateful lie about Israel, my Twitter feed and Facebook wall light up like a fucking Christmas tree, pun intended, with the most despicable filth about Jews you can even imagine. Not Israel, Jews. All from the Left. Just because one’s extended family doesn’t exhibit antisemitism doesn’t mean it’s only out there in small or fringe numbers. You probably don’t notice it so much because you aren’t Jewish so it doesn’t really jump out at you off the screen or into your ears like it does for me.
No. Stop equating Isreal as a country with its current fucked up leadership. That’s like tarring all of America because Dick Cheney was an evil monster who temporarily had the reins.
Who the hell is Benny Morris, and when did I love him? Assuming, of course, that I pass muster for your definition of “leftist”?
Yet you are tarring the entire Left based on the way some of them act.
I don’t Twit or Face, how do these things light up? Why are people sending their hateful remarks to you?
No, it’s not. If you believe anyone who criticises the nation of Israel is only doing it because they hate Jews you live a miserable fantasy of your own invention.
This is a pretty important distinction, and a defense for many on the left. One can oppose some of Israel’s national political policies and practices, without having any animosity toward Judaism, either as a theological or ethnic group.
Criticizing Israel is not always anti-Semitic, any more than criticizing the U.S. would be automatically anti-Christian or even anti-American. I love my country (U.S.) but it has done a lot of really bad things. The bad decisions made by the leadership of the governing political party of the U.S., Israel, or any other country may be completely independent of any religious or ethnic content.
(And, yeah, it might also be a horrible example of anti-Semitic bigotry. Both forms of criticism exist in large amounts.)
Joe Schmoe: The US did some horrible things surrounding the Iraq war.
Joe Schmoe: Israel did some horrible things surrounding the Palestinian situation.
In the former case, I feel like no one thinks Joe is an unreasonable hater. In the latter case, I think it’s often implied.
I do equate the actions of the leadership of a country with the country. The leadership controls what the country does. If the leadership of the US takes an action, the US has taken the action. If the leadership of Israel takes an action, Israel has taken the action.
That’s a sickening characterization, and kind of backwards.
See, I’m turned off by the Israeli mainstream because of seeing photos of young Israelis who enjoy watching Gaza get bombed, and hearing about young Israelis march through Jerusalem shouting “Death to all Arabs.” I don’t want to participate in or support anti-Arabism. Don’t make me out to be someone who wants to kill Jewish babies.