Nor does this sort of thing go away by pretending that racism wasn’t a factor for a not-insignificant portion of Trump’s support.
In my county, Trump got fewer votes than Romney by about the same margin as Johnson picked up. Hillary got a couple of percent less than Obama did in 2012, but the Trump+Johnson total was also about a percent lower than Romney got.
Plus the fact that both people on the ticket were former Republican office-holders.
That’s always true of Republicans. It’s not a meaningful argument.
So you don’t think KKK members are racists ??? They supported Trump wholeheartedly !
This is probably true. But one person’s offence is another person’s well-meant criticism.
For example, clearly the following is offensive and demonizing: “You’re thinking of voting for Trump? Fuck off you inbred redneck racist!”
This however, while I have seen it or variations on it cause offence, seems to me to be in a different category: “Trump is running a race-baiting campaign and has been endorsed by the KKK. If you vote for him you will have made common cause with racists and it will have the effect of encouraging his racist supporters.” Now, we’ve had some discussion earlier about the nature of reality, but I think the first sentence there is factual and the second is a reasonable extrapolation from those facts. There is no pejorative language aimed at the potential Trump voter. Nevertheless, statements like this, in my experience, are likely to be met with a response of “How dare you call me a racist?! It’s your fault if I vote Trump now, because I’m so offended!”
So my question is, is there any way to phrase an argument based upon Trump’s use of race-baiting and his obvious appeal to racists that, in your opinion, might succeed with Trump supporters? Or is the whole topic - which, let’s face it, addresses the single biggest flaw Trump had as a candidate - out of bounds?
This is pretty much game set match, at least relative to most elections. You could, if you had a very distorted worldview, claim that Democrats are as racist as Republicans – I don’t agree mind you, but if you live a in a right-wing (or left wing for that matter) bubble you could believe it.
What you can’t really believe is that the KKK’s endorsement of Trump does not mean that Trump isn’t more racist than the average Republican nominee. Assuming that he really meant what he said. If he was just trolling for votes by saying such racist and xenophobic things that even the KKK likes his statements (and they usually dislike both party’s statements), then no one should trust anything he says. I mean, even moreso than by looking at his business track record.
Hi, they most definitely are racists. It doesn’t make me one because I supported Trump. And it doesn’t make Trump one. I posted the below earlier in this thread, perhaps it’s helpful? Let me know. Emphasis added.
Or alternatively, he said a lot of impolitic and provocative statements, which appealed both to people sick and tired of PC double-talk and to racists as well, the latter being especially encouraged by media portrayals of Trump’s words as racist.
Hi Ludovic, see my post directly after yours.
ETA: and, every candidate who has won, at least going back to at least Reagan, has made campaign promises they did not keep, or exaggerated somewhat.
It sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself of this. “We do not hate”? Lol. I can’t tell if you’re excluding the KKK and its sympathizers from this “we” or if you honestly believe these groups don’t hate. Regardless, this post is going in my folder marked Blatantly False Shit Trump Supporters Had to Believe to Vote for Trump.
Oh I see. The ole Trump is playing 3D chess theory, the racist gotcha ya version. How clever it is that Trump could reel in the racists all the while sending secret signals to you and other noble anti-haters.
Tell me. Were these signals of love and inclusiveness beamed up in the sky like the Thundercat symbol? Or were they more like dog whistles, except in reverse so to speak?
Forget those questions, though. Why doesn’t it seem to bother you that Trump deliberately ingratiated himself with racists to advance himself? I mean, let’s assume you’re right. Trump isn’t really racist; he just marketed himself as such. Our president has more than half the country and probably most of the world thinking he hates anyone that is not a white male…and you don’t see how damaging this could be on pretty much every level imaginable?
No, why would I? What people who aren’t Trump supporters are doing isn’t relevant when discussing Trump supporters and their bigotry (or, as you would have it, the lack thereof). You said “we do not hate” and I showed that wasn’t the case.
There’s also that.
Its all bullshit isn’t it, all these people trying to blame Hillary, or blame Obama, or blame the non voters, or trying to pretend that Trump didn’t actually mean what he said, or trying to pretend that he won’t do what he said, all these people who can’t just own the fact that they are the reason their country just made an ass of itself.
Was Trump also “pretending to be racist” when he was repeatedly discriminating against blacks when he owned apartment buildings?
“Some, I assume, are good people.” - Donald Trump.
Well, it is kind of a cheap shot because this isn’t Italy where you have 17 or so competing parties that each represent their own narrow viewpoint. In a 2-party system, each party is a massive coalition of strange bedfellows. So no matter who you vote for, you’re always going to be sharing a platform with some rotten people, there’s no way around it.
Bingo.
I may be wrong, but I think I saw a terroristic homophobic muslim man sitting right behind Hillary at one of her rallies.
I wouldn’t have said she was pro terror homophohic old bat just because that asshole showed up.
Why don’t we stick to reality? I did see a terroristic indicted- for-murder cult-member African-American man with Trump at his rallys.
This is just guilt by association. Who cares who the KKK likes or wants to be president? I’m sure the ones who vote Democrat preferred Hillary over Bernie because he is Jewish. That tells who nothing about how Hillary’s other supporters feel about Jews. Hitler liked dogs, that does not mean that PETA are a bunch of Nazis?
If you have a point to make about Trump, you should make it and not just try to smear his supporters with guilt by association.
Well right now I’m just talking about people who verbally or physically attack minority individuals in public, with obvious racist motives, or who deface public spaces (physical or virtual) with racist vitriol. I can give you some examples from the past 36 hours, if you really need me to help you find them