But a union is an unavoidable and natural consequence of collective bargaining – that is, in order to bargain collectively, a group of people must appoint representatives to negotiate on their behalf.
I have no heartburn with unions per se. Unions that engage in illegal tactics are the problem.
On top of everything else they’re screwing over thousands of NYC kids who take the subways and buses to school. Nice work assholes! :rolleyes:
I hope they get fined. If this continues I hope they get fired.
And then they can go back to the real world like the rest of us who would be happy to make 55K a year – especially for a job that doesn’t require much in the way of education or training.
I’m not peronally affected by this, but the part that really riles me is that one of the things they’re striking over is the possibility of paying 1% of their healthcare costs. ONE PERCENT, up from nothing. Poor babies. Christ.
For those who have asked/wondered whether the strike is really illegal, it is. Under New York State’s Taylor Law, public employees are prohibited from striking. The penalties for striking include the loss of 2 days’ pay for each day out on strike for individuals, and the loss of dues collection by the union itself for some period of time, apart from fines that could be levied on the union to the tunes of millions per day on strike.
Why bend over to appease the union when the union is being unreasonable?
I have no sympathy for the TWU. Like Cheesesteak pointed out, the MTA’s offers have been more than fair. The union counters that it must go out on strike because its members been disrespected and unappreciated. It’s not fair to expect future hires to pay a miniscule contribution toward their retirement fund, or even actually make them work until the minimum Social Security retirement age. One TWU compromise offer lowered the requested pay raise, but then demanded fewer disciplinary actions. :rolleyes: Oh yeah, your fight is our fight … not. Come work in the private sector, where it’s not uncommon to have your boss tell you that only exceptional performance reviews will get as much as a 2% salary increase this year, or where you’d be shelling out a couple hundred dollars a month as your share of health insurance premiums. Oh, and no overtime.
Thankfully I was able to stay with a friend and just have a 10-minute walk to work this morning, but I’ve been talking to a lot of people with experiences a lot more like the comments posted here. Of interest is an email currently near the bottom:
On the whole, Mr. Toussaint, I don’t think there are too may people wanting to respect you or your union right now.
In my mind, it only becomes a “Union” once it becomes an established organization on its own. Simply put, at that point it ceases to purely represent workers; its own wants (or more accurately, the wants of the Union management) begin to have an effect on its goals and orientation. Plus, it has a vested interest in causing trouble in the future, even without a rational reason. Causing trouble, after all, is its sole raison d’etre. If it isn’t doing that, the workers might wonder what they’re getting out of it.
Moreover, the Union management often becomes incredibly ossified. Sans any business knowledge, they assume that corporate types are making the big bucks (often incorrect), and that they are getting shafted. Witness the behavior of the UAW’s “Big Ron” Gettlefinger as he keeps pushing GM into the death spiral. Unions regularly commit suicide because of their management, and they take all their workers down with them.
Example: There used to be a big phone factory in Indianapolis. They made those old kinds of rotary phones, did it cheaply, and made high-quality stuff. They make nothing anymore. As the market was changing, the Union wouldn’t let management fire anyone, and in fact refused to change anyone’s job description. This in effect meane the factory had to keep running the rotary lines, when they wanted to start making new electronic versions (more like they sell now). Union wouldn’t budge. Started a strike over the issue.
Factory management thought about this very briefly. They decided that if it was going to be this much trouble just to upgrade their product line, it was easier just to close the factory. Security locked up the factory and went home, and no one works there any more. And it was the right move. The company (in a different form), is still around AFAIK, happily making phones overseas since Amerian workers didn’t want to.
The Rust Belt is full of Union graves, though of course not every factory died because fo the Unions. I know that even if “Big Ron” Gettlefinger softened up tommorow, it wouldn’t erase all of GM’s woes. But at the same time, not being the whole problem doesn’t mean he bears no guilt for not being part of the solution. It looks now that the UAW is going to die a painful death when GM goes. The Japanese are not going to allow Unions because they know it’s suicidal; America has shown what happens. Ford and Chrysler are not nearly so dependant on them, and the UAW’s position vis-a-vis Ford and Damlier-Chrysler is only getting weaker.
Usually, I’m sympathetic towards unions and the workers, but then I found that they make 50,000$ a year. Okay, that might not be much in NYC, but it’s more than what a slew of people make all over the US.
That’s all I can think of. If these workers were really being screwed over, then I wouldn’t blame them for fighting, but I just can’t see that here.
And I tend to have zero sympathy for coprorations and seldom side with them not matter what “help” they offer.
As for whether or not unions produce anything, others here could argue that better than I could. I know that in Europe, they’re much better. Smaller, but far stronger and more effective. Seems it’s the opposite in America. I just wish I could say more than this:
I hate both sides. Hell with them all. This is one of the many reasons why I simply hate everyone.
Just a FYI, I was driving around Brooklyn (I’m playing taxi service for all of my stranded friends today) and the lines to get in to the LIRR were blocks long and didn’t seem to be moving. Leave EARLY.
I can understand not wanting to do track work later in life - it is sometimes hard labor and the tunnels are cold, damp, and dangerous. However, IIRC less than 10% of the workers are track workers. Most DO work desk jobs. So how about transferring your superannuated track workers to the token booths, or something? Don’t expect us (the New Yorkers who pay taxes AND subway fares) to fund early retirement because to refuse to “think outside the box”.
Parts of Europe are a real joy when it comes to unions. My wife is fluent in French and leads business exploration trips to France every year. A few years ago, the bus she chartered was blockaded in the middle of nowhere because of a fuel strike that targeted 18-wheelers or something. It took 3 hours of her pleeding with some guy that had a t-shirt with a pig face and the French words for “My Lover” on it to get let through. Way to let influential people see the good parts of your country asswipes.
Unions are going to take parts of Europe down before they will the U.S. You simply can’t wish and bully things into existence. The people that actually generate the economy have to be allowed enough freedom so that they can pillage it.
I never trust people that had trouble in 9th grade math to do a high level economic and business analysis about fair wage and working requirements. It is just organized tyranny by the ignorant and self-entitled. For them to strike in NYC this time of year should be viewed as low-level domestic terrorism and the goevernment should come down hard, strong, and fast. I want to see their kids balling on live TV as Mom and Dad pack up the station wagon to be banned to North Dakota.
Taken from GOP and the City
Estimated daily cost of a strike to the city - $400,000,000
Average Salary for a Subway/Bus operator - $62,000
Starting Salary for a NYPD Police officer - $25,100
Trying to get support from a public that makes less money (on average), will get less salary increases (3.5% versus the TWU’s request for 8%), and will have to work over a decade longer (TWU retires at 55)…while making them walk to work in 25 degree weather - Priceless
For what it’s worth the New York State Corrections officers are 4 years past an expired contract. They will be fired if they ever struck.
I don’t think the TWU people have the real fear of getting fired. As a New York taxpayer who will work a long time past 67 and paying for heath insurance I say Fuck 'em.
Still, any thinking person ought to at least give the situation a look-at, since the broader issues aren’t limited to NYC. Transit strikes are possible in any big city.
Aren’t most of the kids on Christmas break by now? What’s the school schedule up there?
Christmas break starts this weekend and goes through the next Monday.
Well, NYPD is diverting man power in to the empty subways. More officers guarding empty tuneels = less eyes out on the street.
Some staggering pension figures:
Do the math and join us is a rousing chorus of [, with it’s own 2005 [url=http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000100&sid=aY1nFcACKmV8&refer=germany]58.9 Billion Euro](]Crash Berlin[/url) deficit.
Not to mention that America must re-think at the concept of ‘retirement age’ as people are living much longer.
I hardly think child pornography is the answer.
Not just child porn but INCESTUOUS child porn!
[head explodes]
What I can’t get over is the boneheaded PR people in the union. The city would be behind them 100% if they emphasized lousy working conditions (and they do have lousy working conditions). But no . . . They are striking because they don’t want to contribute to their terrific benefits program, they want unreasonable salaries, they want to retire at 50 . . .
. . . I never thought I’d be nostalgic for Reagan, but I say fire their greedy asses.
Never let it be said I never speak well of the French: Paris has trains that run without drivers.
emphasis mine.
Learning how to lie with statistics - $8.96