Eh? You never have to put “Mr” on anything? Just about every single form I fill in requires some sort of title. It’s on my credit cards, I have to enter one when I pay online, I need to enter it when signing up for utilities, yada yada yada. We use (and are forced to use) our titles all over the shop. Are you really never asked for your title? The OP is specifically about someone asking people for their title. I tried to book seats on three different airlines earlier, and every single one of them asked me for my title. Every single one of them gave the option “Dr”. Are they all transgressing some unspoken social boundary?
My only point is that in every circumstance where someone without a doctorate would use “Mr”, people with doctorates commonly, and with every justification, use “Dr”. What’s so controversial about this? For the hundredth time, I’m not talking about cockslapping people in the face at parties until they address you properly, I’m not talking about getting pissy with the barista because they don’t know you’re an eminence grise of tribology; I’m talking about situations where one’s title is requested, and given.
I had no idea I was being so disrespected by allowing people to call me Mister, instead of requiring them to acknowledge my M.S.
All travel agents, waiters, desk folk and so on will recieve a hearty box upon on the ear, should they fail to address address me in all repsonses as “Master wolfman”, or at least “yes master”.
You know that argument makes no sense, right? When you buy an airline ticket, does the form offer “Master” as an option? They do offer “Doctor.” If that’s one of the choices, that means it’s considered acceptable to choose it.
And we’re not talking about a guy who’s actually going around smacking people who fail to address him as “Doctor,” right?
We’re just talking about a guy who wants to tick the “Dr.” option that’s available on the form. And we’re talking about a travel agent who apparently believes that ticking that option has some kind of implications for medical emergencies.
Argh. No-one is moaning about being disrespected. No-one is even talking about correcting people when they address them wrongly. The issue is people being asked a direct question, then berated for giving the correct answer.
It’s difficult to know how much plainer this could be made.
Sadly, we’ve had these kinds of debates before. I still remember when one of our resident attorneys insisted that MDs were more deserving of the title “doctor” on the grounds that they had to work longer and harder for that degree. (Never mind that an MD takes considerably less time to obtain than a PhD in most fields.)
And you are the arbiter, not only of the interpretation of Scripture, but of what is permissible in colloquial English usage? I think not!
First, what I was reporting was the common usage/understanding among average citizens of those parts of America where I’ve observed usage.
In an academic context, I’d be one of the first to address, e.g., PRR as “Dr. Ruber” until and unless he suggested otherwise. If I were consulting Podkayne on a question of stellar evolution, I’d address my inquiry to “Dr. Podkayne Fries” at her place of employment. In a social context, I’d take my cue from others’ usage as to whether the guests with Ph.D. prefer “Doctor” or not.
This was addressed specifically to the issue of airline passengers. On the occasions I’ve flown, I have not observed medical emergencies. And obviously the handful of movies/TV shows that show flight attendants consulting passenger lists were incorrect. My answer was founded on the presumption that a travel agent who no doubt consults with airlines every day in the course of his job has some knowledge of what he’s talking about, which knowledge I don’t happen to share.
I think anyone who insists on a particular form of address that acknowledges his state of nobility, earned doctorate, membership in the Bar, or whatever, is being a pompous ass – unless there’s a specific reason why he/she is doing so. E.g., social contact with a Viceroy, were there one, would call for calling him “Jack” or whatever he prefers; in a formal context where I’m presenting a petition for Royal Assent with him acting in lieu of the monarch, I’d address him as “Your Highness” or whatever local social custom calls for.
My point was, and remains, that there are sound reasons for knowing who on an aircraft has medical training, no matter how that’s determined (passenger manifest or public announcement) – and that there are not similarly sound reasons for knowing who has an academic doctorate.
As to specializations, I don’t know about Europe, but in the U.S. all physicians (M.D.) are required to be trained in the rudiments of all fields of medicine, and to serve an internship that rotates among varied groups of conditions, and they are further bound by their Hippocratic Oath to come to the aid of someone in need of emergency medical attention. So assuming a pathologist or psychiatrist would not know how to deal with an airway obstruction is in error – they did have the training for it in medical school and practical experience in it in their internship, even if they’ve specialized in other fields.
I will admit I was in error in backing the OP’s insistence on drawing the distinction between M.D.'s and academic doctorates in signing up passengers – but it was founded on a sound misconception, if you’ll pardon the oxymoron.
Well, given that the OP hasn’t given us any evidence for this, or even explained airline policy in any meaningful way, it’s a bit hard to tell.
Also, almost every airline trip i’ve booked in the last 8 years has been online; i’ve used a travel agent exactly once in that time. And in all those online bookings, not one single airline website has ever had a caution about the use of the Dr honorific. You’d think, if it were as important to the airlines as the OP claims, that there would be some big red warning text at the place where you fill in your title saying something like:
What proportion of people do you think book their airline travel online nowdays? Given the prevalence, the near ubiquity, of internet flight booking, surely the airlines would have done something like this?
Right, but what you and the OP have yet to demonstrate to anyone’s satisfaction is that the airlines use the passenger manifest in this way, or that the airlines care at all about whether a PhD selects Dr from the title section.
Then why do you continue to insist on the distinction, given that the very reason given by the OP for making the distinction has not been demonstrated to be valid?
You know what? Earlier in this thread, you were expressing a rather adamant opinion about the proper usage of the word “doctor.” Yet when I express a contrary opinion, you castigate me for setting myself up as the “arbiter… of what is permissible in colloquial English usage”? Do you not see the irony in your condescension?
If anything, I’d say that your judgment is quite a bit harsher than mine, since I do allow for the legitimate colloquial use of the word “Doctor” in a non-medical sense.
You expressed a judgment. I’m saying that I consider you to be in error. Now, if you wish to take the low road and accuse me of being the “arbiter… of what is permissible in colloquial English usage,” then I think you are applying a clear double-standard.
I’m not even going to comment on the strong opinions that you have repeatedly voiced regarding “the interpretation of Scripture,” or the criticisms you’ve levelled to those who held contrary views.
Something with which absolutely no-one has taken issue, as far as I can see. This is a complete red herring. We are talking about people being directly asked for their title, and giving it in good faith. This is a completely different situation. Why do people keep banging on about “insisting”? It’s driving me nuts.
Maybe so; but in that case, the correct question should be asked: “Do you have medical training?” Do you disagree with this?
It’s the height of foolishness to ask the wrong question, then get huffy when people answer it correctly, but you don’t get the information you really wanted. The title of this thread should be “Idiot travel agent doesn’t know how to ask a straight question - bizarrely blames others.”
I agree. However, I also think that if someone knows full well that you have a Ph.D. and yet deliberately calls you “Mister Drake,” then that person is being consumately rude.
I once heard one person argue, “Well, people who didn’t go to college might not be aware that there are non-medical doctors.” I think that’s highly implausible, though; after all, virtually everyone has heard of Dr. Martin Luther King and Dr. Joyce Brothers. Only those with very little exposure to media or the real world would ever think that only physicians are referred to as “doctor.”
Threads like this make me long for the halcyon days when the OPs showed up again to answer questions and to explain what the hell they were talking about.