An, excellent semantic nitpicking point. Thanks, I figured it was something like that. Anything else? 
Nope, and if you think it’s silly of me to point out that you got absolutely nothing right in your response, then giggle away.
Trust me, there is giggling AND eye rolling at this point. If you feel you’ve scores some sort of point, well, that’s your right as well.
Ah, the irony. So, you link to a cartoon talking about ‘what happens to your body after you die’, and you believe this mean…what? I seriously doubt anyone is disputing what happens to a persons body after they die, but thanks for the link and the laugh.
When it comes to science, that is all you’ve got. There are no scientific theories involving the afterlife.
I’m not talking about an afterlife. I’m talking about ‘you’…and there are theories or at least real scientific thinking/speculation by real scientists that speculate on this question. Again, if there IS a multiverse composed of infinite (or even extremely large numbers of) parallel universes that have ‘you’ in them, then after ‘you’ die in THIS one ‘you’ can still go on in those other ones, in theory at least. So, the question about what happens to ‘you’ when you die isn’t as cut and dried as what happens to your body in this universe when it dies.
I’m not a scientist and I don’t pretend to be one (I took aerospace engineering in college and physics III was as far as I was required to go), but from what I understand from those who do, this is a valid interpretation of the math and by things like the double-slit experiment (which I did in the class). This might or might not be the way it really works, and we might or might not ever know, but there is enough uncertainty in all of this to say that it’s not just pc BS to say we ‘nobody really knows what happens after death’…unless we are simply talking about the pedantic ‘what happens to your body after you die’ thing that I don’t believe anyone is really questioning.
Even if one of the many speculations about multiple earths turns out to be true, what does the consciousness from your dying body have to do with the consciousness of the body of some alternate “you” that lived a life unconnected physically from yours? Did one of the scientists that proposed speculation about multiple earths also comment about some sort of connection between the consciousness of a person of one earth and the consciousness of a person from another earth?
No one REALLY knows anything. There is no absolute knowledge that evolution takes place, the stuff falls to the Earth due to gravity, etc. “Rabid” atheist types like me are just fine discussing it and it doesn’t smack of theism. It’s just not a very interesting discussion. Yeah, anything might be possible. Yippee.
Using a reasonable definition of “know”, we know that evolution happens, stuff falls to the Earth due to gravity and that what makes us who we are is a functioning brain.
Or he might just want to use a reasonable definition of “know”, since us not having absolute knowledge is something we all agree on.
That’s the topic of the thread and it’s what you seemed to be discussing in 2012 in this thread and today. You keep making statements like “No, the topic of the conversation is what happens after you die”, so what are you talking about if not an afterlife? An afterlife is what everyone else is talking about. Please answer in your own words and without linking to a Wikipedia page.
Things might not fall to the Earth when they are dropped since in a parallel universe they might fall up. Again, yippee.
They speculate that they are essentially exact copies of ‘you’. Maybe one of ‘you’ decides to text while driving and gets his just rewards, while others don’t and continue on. They are all still ‘you’, basically, however…at least those in universes where the quantum choices are minor (i.e. flip a coin. it could be heads or tails. In fact, it IS heads AND tails. A parallel universe is born, but really in that one the only difference at the point of the split was one coin came up heads, one tails). How is someone who thinks they are ‘you’, has the same exact memories as ‘you’, is ‘you’ at every level, different than ‘you’? And if in one universe ‘you’ are killed, how is it meaningful to say that ‘you’ aren’t still in existence if the theory/speculation is correct, just in another universe where whatever event it is that killed ‘you’ didn’t happen? Or, if there is a difference in time (i.e. it’s exactly our universe, but 30 years ago), how is that earlier version of ‘you’ not ‘you’?
To me, this is a more interesting question and more interesting avenue of discussion than either your link to what happens to your body when you die or just handwaving it all aside. At least when I’m handwaving things aside as if they could be true it’s interesting wrt the question…IMHO anyway.
But why are you having your “more interesting question and more interesting avenue of discussion” in this thread about what happens here on this earth after death?
Basically? No, exact copies of me are basically clones, and are separate from me. The clone that got his just rewards will be dead and I will still be alive.
How strong is the evidence that universe with exact copies exist, anyway? Not that it’s relevant since my body dying is not the same as an exact copy living a life where he makes different choices lives. I don’t think it would be possible for an exact copy living in exact circumstances to make different choices, but this is really a discussion for another thread.
No, it’s how I interpret the OP:
I’m an atheist…or, at least that’s what I’ve been told by folks on this board. I’m trying to show that there IS interesting speculation on what happens that is more than ‘that’s it’ ‘Once you’re dead’. something a bit more interesting than a video showing how we decompose, which, again, I think everyone is on board with. So, I’m answering the OP in a bit more colorful a way than the pedantic and knee jerk anti-theism that seems so prevalent on this board.
Besides, of COURSE since I’m not actually an atheist but instead and agnostic, what other answer could I give than ‘we don’t really know’.
[QUOTE=x-ray vision]
Basically? No, exact copies of me are basically clones, and are separate from me. The clone that got his just rewards will be dead and I will still be alive.
[/QUOTE]
No, they aren’t clones. You do realize that a clone might match you genetically, but it won’t be an exact copy at the quantum level, right? That’s not what they are talking about…these other you’s are YOU…they have all your memories, lived exactly the same life as you with perhaps some small variation. Or, to look at it a different way, the one having this same conversation with me in an alternative universe could equally think of YOU as the clone and the x-ray vision there as the ‘real’ one.
Perhaps in that universe more people in the thread will have a better sense of humor and will lighten up a bit, but depends on how different it is.
Well, from what I understand the math works. It’s one of the consequences of the quantum theory. Some theoretical physicists seems to think it could be, some don’t. It’s a pretty cool interpretation though, IMHO.
Why? If an exact copy of you is living in another parallel universe, how is that not the same as you basically continuing on if the only difference is that you choked on a cheese burger after reading this and died while the other you didn’t?
Well, I wouldn’t be the one to explain it in any case, but think of it this way…there could be a parallel universe where everything is exactly the same as this one, except that I just flipped a coin and it came up heads, while my counterpart in that other universe did the same thing and it came up tails. From your perspective (the multiple you’s in those other universes) there is zero difference.
That is basically a clone, and much more accurate than describing an exact copy as “being me.”
Then they’re not “me.” I am made of my exact, specific molecules- not copies of them. This is especially true since you mention them having variations.
Once my body dies, something happens to “my” consciousness. An exact, or close to exact, duplicate of me in another universe getting to live does not change that. “I” will be brain dead. The duplicate will not be, and is of no consequence to “me.”
Yeah, the “one” having the same conversation.
So…these are joke posts and are for comedic effect? I’m busting a gut!
Perhaps the fairies living in middle earth that pull things towards them fooling into thinking there’s gravity have awesome senses of humor.
I’m a separate entity. I have my own consciousness.
And how is an exact copy of me that lives in different circumstances than me and/or makes different decisions an “exact” copy? That’s not possible. If I choke on a cheeseburger and he doesn’t, there are differences in the synapses occurring in our brains and our brains are different from one another.
None of this “exact” but a little different stuff is relevant to this thread.
Not only isn’t the idea on-topic, it’s ancient. Larry Niven wrote “All The Myriad Ways” 43 years ago.
[QUOTE=x-ray vision]
That is basically a clone, and much more accurate than describing an exact copy as “being me.”
[/QUOTE]
No, it’s not a clone.
I disagree. If the universe is exactly the same as this one with the only difference being a coin flip, then both are ‘you’.
And you are of no consequence to the other you either. However, your memories and feelings and life will go on, which is my point.
We both are…or, all of us are.
Perhaps a new universe is born then.
Doubtful, but in an infinite universe (or infinite universes on a infinite ‘sea’) I suppose anything is possible. I’m not hopeful though.
And all the exact copies of you think exactly the same thing. Even all of the slightly different versions of you think that. Well, a few of them are starting to come around to at least considering some of this stuff and tossing out your obvious baggage on the subject and thinking about the possible implications.
It is to me. Obviously you and Czar (and probably 90% of the rest perhaps reading and rolling their eyes by not commenting) disagree, but to me it’s exactly relevant to the question actually asked in the OP. All of this stuff I’ve been saying could be how our universe works, and an exact copy of you who doesn’t die when you do in this universe IS you, IMHO…and answers the question. Or, at least, it throws real uncertainty into the mix. This isn’t middle earth fantasy stuff here, despite what you seem to think, assuming you’ve actually thought about any of this stuff at all which I’m doubting. To me, you are just jerking your knee with the responses because you have already decided what the answer to the OP is and nothing will budge you.
Did I just flip that coin? Do you know? Did it affect you at all? Yet, by me flipping that coin it could have produced a fork…a whole new parallel universe where you, me and the coin are now in two separate universes. The only difference in both of them right now is that I flipped a coin and in one it was heads, in the other it’s tails (and, hell, in another maybe the coin came up on edge, just for some variety). How would the ‘you’ in both of them be any different in any way based on my coin flip? Why would you think they would be different in any meaningful way?
It is on topic, and it’s a hot topic these days in the physics world (not to mention on the Science Channel :p). Plus, that was a pretty good book.
ETA: But, you know, I’ll bow out so you can go back to a pedantic discussion of how people rot when they die. I’m sure that will be a REALLY interesting discussion between you and x-ray vision. Perhaps after that you could talk about how water is wet or something as a followup.
Yeah, again, it basically is. Much more so than you calling a duplicate of me that is a little different than me “me.”
No. Something about our brains are different or we would have flipped the coins exactly the same. If something in our environment was different to cause our coin flips to be different, then the differences in the environment caused our brains to have different experiences, and by definition our brains are not exact duplicates of one another, regardless of how slight that difference is.
Same with your choking on a burger scenario. If one lives in an environment where he lives and the other dies, neither the universes nor the brains are exact to the other.
Nope. If one decided to text and drive and the other didn’t, they live in different places, with different environments and different brains and the memories and feelings each has will be different from one another. The one that dies at a minimum will have the memories and feelings associated with dying in a car accident and the other will have many changes go on in the brain due to aging, experiences etc. and will have a different consciousness. They are not duplicates of one another.
You need to look up the word “exact.” If he’s having experiences that differ than mine (which he is if he dies and I continue to live, have experiences, etc.), his brain can’t possibly exactly be mine.
Yes, it is. There’s no more evidence that there is an exact universe where exactly the same stuff happens to us, (except for “little” differences, like one of us dies) than there are fairies in middle earth.
Even if there was, it would be irrelevant. I am not my duplicate. If I became 100% convinced that there is an exact duplicate of me having the same experiences and everything is exactly the same, I would not be okay with dying. I want to live because “I” want to live. I don’t care if my duplicate does. My consciousness is separate from his regardless if his is identical. Something will or won’t happen to “me” when I die and his brain will go on to make even more changes and he won’t be “me” by any definition. I am not my duplicate, and I am not a duplicate if we don’t do exactly the same things.
I don’t see how you think what you’re talking about is relevant to the OP.
The OP is about what happens after death. A duplicate with another body in slightly different circumstances that gets to live where the other duplicate gets to live in another universe has nothing to do with what happens or doesn’t after death.
I’m not knee-jerking. I’ve thought about what you wrote and have concluded that a duplicate of me with different experiences is not only not “me”, it’s not even an exact duplicate.
Explain how flipping a coin creates a universe. Explain how a coin flip could have a different result when everything about the universe is exactly the same as the other. Explain why the synapses in my brain are exactly the same as a duplicate of me where a coin flip isn’t exactly the same. Explain how I would have the same brain when I die as an exact duplicate of me has that already died by having a life different enough than mine where he choked on a cheeseburger and I continue to live and have changes happen in my brain.
Your response didn’t answer my question, so I’ll copy and paste it again:
"And how is an exact copy of me that lives in different circumstances than me and/or makes different decisions an “exact” copy? "
If one has experiences where he chokes on a cheeseburger and dies and the other doesn’t, and gets to live longer, how are their brains duplicates of one another?
“What happens to my consciousness after I die?”
“Your secret identical twin that lives in another universe will continue to live your life for you!”