Noise complaint citation (barking dog). Planning to challenge.

In My Humble Opinion
1

As I wrote in this thread, kaylasmom’s dog, Valor, began showing signs of illness which could be IBS or stomach cancer earlier this year.

A month later, my father passed away, and I had been receiving some money from his estate as of June. So in late July, since Valor still had blood in his stool, I used some of that money to finance more in-depth diagnostic testing for his condition. The vet we used for the preliminary tests thought he had a couple of problematic areas in his intestine, and suggested that he might be definitively treated with a minor bowel resection. So, I sprung for that, only to learn, in the middle of the procedure that he had major tumors throughout his intestines.

We decided to just close him up, take a couple of days to say goodbye, and let him go. kaylasmom was devastated, of course, and soon began pining for another Black Lab boy to be her comfort. On August 1, we obtained Oliver, an 11-week old puppy, and brought him home.

At this point, it’s probably relevant to mention that kaylasmom has had four dogs to call her baby in the past (three Golden Retrievers, female; and one Black Labrador Retriever, male), but she has never raised and socialized a puppy before. I, likewise have never borne the responsibility for raising and socializing a puppy. Oliver has been growing into a very loving (if energetic and rambunctious) guy. He knows to go outside to do his business, but he still gives “playful” bites, he still piddles when he meets someone new, and he still BARKS, although less than when he joined the household.

Speaking of barking, in mid-September our next-door neighbor filed a complaint with the county Animal Care department that Ollie was an incessant barker, and accordingly, we received a courtesy notice to the effect that we need to curtail that issue. In the weeks since, I have endeavored to do exactly that, not only in an effort to avoid a citation, but to be a good neighbor.

Today, I received in the mail a registered letter from Orange county (CA) Animal Care, containing a citation for a complaint that had been filed on October 6 of an incident in which Ollie had allegedly been barking incessantly on October 5, from 10:30 a.m. until noon. There is a $250 fine associated with this infraction, and I have been summoned to appear before a hearing of the Planning Commission at the county seat on October 28. I have not yet determined whether his is a mandatory summons, of if it is only operative if I wish to contest the citation. As it happens, I wish to contest the citation.

Here’s the thing: on October 5, at approximately 10:30 a.m., I was visited by a retirement counselor who wished to consult with me on the matter of how I am to finance my eventual retirement. She remained in my home until about noon. Yes, Oliver did make a nuisance of himself when she arrived (including piddling at her feet), Yes, he did bark incessantly for about ten to fifteen minutes after her arrival. However, we were able to get him to comport himself in a gentlemanly fashion by fifteen minutes after the woman settled herself in and we got down to business (translation: his “incessant” barking cessed). I have full confidence that this woman would able to truthfully report at the hearing that the particulars of the complaint are not factually based.

Here’s another thing: this woman apparently works out of her home, and had to drive more than 50 miles to get to my home. I haven’t yet spoken with her about this, and I have no idea if she has any other potential clients in the neighborhood (possibly making a trip out here to testify on our behalf worth her time). Should I ask her if she would be willing to submit an affidavit that she was present in my home and can affirm that Ollie was NOT barking "incessantly"during the time period outlined in the complaint? Or am I more likely to succeed in my contest if I actually ask her to show up?

2

Buy a shock dog collar. Use it or don’t use it. Bring it and the receipt to your planning commission meeting. Show them that you are trying to be a good neighbor and responsible pet owner. They do not want to talk to your witness.

Orange County seems really serious about dog barking violations. Most places you couldn’t get anybody to come out to deal with a dog barking violation. I would probably put the collar on the dog. It will learn pretty quick to stop barking.

3

You were home and didn’t stop your dog from barking incessantly for ten to fifteen minutes?

WOW.

I don’t see how her testimony helps your case. 10 to 15 minutes is excessive barking.

4

You were warned, he’s still a nuisance to your poor neighbor. Pay the fine. Bring him to puppy kindergarten.

5

I know vet techs and veterinarians who use the shock collar technique to stop barking. I know it sounds awful, but they learn quick, and once they do they don’t need it any more.

As someone who lives in shared housing (60 units in a courtyard - we all hear EVERYTHING, when the windows are open especially!), yeah, dogs barking for more than a couple minutes really can be more than annoying.

I think you’ll have more of a chance getting someone in court to read an affidavit than getting them to listen to a witness. Reading is faster, witnesses have to be sworn in and prove who they are yada yada more time. But I’m not sure that will help your case, unfortunately. Where I live, more than 10 minutes of barking is considered a nuisance and ticketable offense, and can be fined from $50 to $250 every day it happens. Sounds like your municipality is the same.

6

I’ve always been more of a fan of goldens than labs. Just have known too many labs that were problematic powerful adult dogs - or damaging through the first 2-3 years. I’ve had 4 goldens from pups, and never had one playfully biting, piddling, or barking.

It has been over 2 months. Whatever you are doing doesn’t seem to be working. I urge you to try something differently, or you may have a long-term problem.

And - yeah - I love dogs, but would be pissed if my neighbor’s dog barked for 10 minutes. I cannot imagine how you could not have quieted him.

7

Apparently not according to the OC codes.

According to the code cited above there are a few things that would influence how well it goes trying to contest the citation.

Did the neighbor attempt to work with you directly before filing a complaint?

Is it possible the dog detected a stranger nearby your house or considered the visitor to be an intruder?

Are you sure the dog barked for 15 minutes and no more, and that during the 24 hour period barked no more than 1 hour?

When they made the complaint that the dog barked from 10:30-12:00 they did so under penalty of perjury. If you have a witness that he didn’t the complaint could wind up backfiring on them. I would definitely ask for their help in whatever way the hearing permits.

In any case I would show up and contest it because if your neighbor fails to show up for the hearing your case is dismissed in your favor.

All that said, a puppy needs to be socialized and trained with a little tough love. Not beating, not necessarily even a shock collar, but a stern, severe “NO” reserved only for those times it is doing something really wrong, combined with a general air of disapproval in your attitude to him, and if necessary, a muzzle or shock collar - but only when he is barking excessively. He’s looking for someone to be the leader of the pack and your stern corrections will be appreciated, not taken personally.

8

You have a dog which bites, pees on the carpet and barks continuously.

How charming.

Just out of curiosity: who owns the rug that is getting peed on?

9

Didn’t you also have an issue with complaints about you not cleaning up after your dogs not too long ago?

10

Shock collars are not cruel when you consider the alternative. We had a dog who escaped the house once, ran into the street, got hit by a car, and survived, with apparently no ill effects, but learned nothing. She had run into a street once before, and she showed no fear of them when on leash. We bought a shock collar, and taught her to fear streets. I know it sounds cruel, but compare it to getting wiped out by a speeding car.

She learned to walk up to a street and sit without a command. She would not cross until we said “OK!” (our dogs’ release command). We even practiced in a very quiet neighborhood with speed bumps, during off-hours, and she learned to do it off leash, you know, in case she ever escaped again. She lived to be 15 & 1/2 (she was a big dog, so that was really old), before succumbing to old age, and passing away quietly in her sleep, on her cozy bed.

If a shock collar is the difference between keeping your boy and rehoming him, and you know he will have a good life with you, do it. Dogs’ necks are muscular, and not as sensitive as humans’.

As far as your witness, I think the poster who pointed out that 10-15 minutes of barking is still a lot, and if your witness is going to confirm that he barked that long, it’s not terribly impressive, especially if you could be cited for that alone. Better to show what you plan to do in the future (puppy school is a good idea as well), and just say nebulously that you were home during that time, and the dog was most certainly not barking all that time.

You could even offer to medicate the dog with Benadryl or Valium when you are gone for long periods of time. Hold that in reserve unless you seem to be losing. You don’t actually have to do it, just offer, to show your willingness to do whatever it takes.

11

I don’t mean to sound negative but it doesn’t sound like you are doing a great job socializing this puppy. The trick to stopping the excited peeing is to teach him not to be so excited when people arrive–there are videos all over the internet about how to do this.

I have had good luck teaching my own barky dog not to bark so much by, get this, rewarding him for barking. What I’m doing is telling him to bark, then rewarding him when he barks, then not rewarding him when he barks when I haven’t told him to. (Simon says…) Surprisingly, this has been effective. But there are other ways.

But the biting…okay, I will say that I am a little obsessive, and whenver I’ve gotten a puppy I’ve overindulged in dog-training books, or videos, or pet forums (whatever was available when I got the dog in question). And all these sources seem to say that you have a very brief window, when the dog is 3-6 months old, to teach it not to bite and not to be mouthy. So, not being good at math, if the dog was 11 weeks old when you got it, you had better figure this out quickly. The thing is when the dog bites to let out a yelp and stop playing for a few minutes. Ignore the dog. Not too long. Going to a supervised puppy play if you can find one will help this because the other dogs will reinforce that biting is a no-no, even while playing.

Sorry for hijack, but to answer your question, I have no idea how OC CA will handle it but most places will have some understanding when it’s a puppy if they see that you are making an effort to train/socialize. Maybe the puppy will be sentenced to a puppy kindergarten or obedience school. This actually could be a really good thing.

I hope they go easy on you and give you a chance to improve your puppy’s behavior, and I hope you do. I don’t know whether the woman’s testimony that your dog did not bark for the entire hour and a half would be valuable, but I’m going with the folks who suggested an affidavit from her, if she’s willing. But work with your dog. I’m going to guess that a second offense would entail something more than a $250 fine.

12

It’s true that rewarding a dog for barking does seem to get them to stop. It worked with all our girls. I think their thought process is something like “I’m barking to be a good watchdog; I’m getting scolded, so I must not be a good watchdog, therefore, I will bark more.” If you praise them, saying something like “Good watchdog,” and give a headpat, they shut up, because their barking was acknowledged. I don’t know this, because I don’t read dogs’ minds, but it sure looked to all appearances as though this was what was going on.

13

I’m guessing you’ve never had a puppy, thats all pretty common behavior for dogs that young. You train them and they grow out of it. Puppy biting is altogether a different thing than a grown dog biting. The put their mouth on you and gnaw, with uncomfortably pointy little teeth, All puppies pee on the carpet occaisionally until they are trained not to. Most puppies bark a lot until they are trained. Some dont stop so if it becomes a deal breaker you have to do a collar.

14

and if you read further on the same site you’ll find this:

(1)

The noise standard for a cumulative period of more than thirty (30) minutes in any hour; or

(2)

The noise standard plus five (5) dB(A) for a cumulative period of more than fifteen (15) minutes in any hour; or

(3)

The noise standard plus ten (10) dB(A) for a cumulative period of more than five (5) minutes in any hour; or

(4)

The noise standard plus fifteen (15) dB(A) for a cumulative period of more than one (1) minute in any hour; or

(5)

The noise standard plus twenty (20) dB(A) for any period of time.

Noise
Level
Time Period
1 55 dB(A)  7:00 a.m.—10:00 p.m.
50 dB(A) 10:00 p.m.— 7:00 a.m.

15

Right, so since we don’t know the decibel level of the dog or if that was mentioned in the complaint (it certainly wasn’t mentioned in this thread) then all we know is that if the dog barked for less than 15 minutes, or if the dog reasonably detected a possible trespasser then the complaint is contestable.

Furthermore we know if the person making the complaint signed under penalty of perjury that the dog barked continuously from 10:30-12:00 and the OP knows he didn’t and has a witness, the complaint is contestable.

Finally, if the OP shows up to contest it and the neighbor doesn’t he wins.

16

This was not for lack of trying. He’s pretty stubborn, and I’ve not found that anything less than wrestling him into submission has been effective (I didn’t feel comfortable getting down on the floor with him at the time).

I’ll be calling the number on the back of the citation in the morning, to feel out my chances. I was told that a cumulative time of one hour (out of twelve) would satisfy the particulars of the violation (when I called about the courtesy notice). My intention is to challenge on the details of the specific complaint.

17

He doesn’t pee on the carpet. He meets people outside the front door and piddles at their feet.

18

In any event, I brought Oliver home from being neutered this afternoon. He doesn’t seem to have the spirit for any barking at all this evening, and the two weeks that he’ll be wearing an E-collar are going to deprive him of any opportunity to bite; maybe he’ll lose interest.

When we bought him, he had a cough that the breeder referred to as a reaction to his bordatella vaccinations. When it didn’t subside within a few days, we brought him to our vet, who determined that he had a touch of pneumonia (testing determined that he was also carrying distemper virus). He’s been cleared of the distemper for a couple of weeks now, but I’ve been undergoing some medical procedures of my own, and have not had an opportunity to enroll him in an obedience class. This weekend might be our first chance (if they are willing to overlook the E-collar).

19

Barking dogs are in the 60 to 110 decibel range.

Barking dogs are a nuisance. If you want the problem to go away then the solution is to stop the barking.

20

Sure as was indicated in my post.

In the mean time the OP has a complaint in which their neighbor apparently lied. Also if the dog detected a possible trespasser he is not qualified as a ‘barking dog’ under this code and the decibel level or time period would be irrelevant. Finally, if they don’t show up, the OP wins.

So are you saying they should just pay the fine despite all that or what exactly is your argument?