Noisy Neighborhood kids- When is it a legal problem?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I saw this on Yahoo news this morning.

It’s the first video on that link (hopefully it worked). The basic outline is that this neighborhood is situated such that the yards are all quite close together. One house has an 11 year old and a 5 year old girl that play in the pool during the summer. The neighbors have been complaining for what sounds like quite some time over the noise levels and say that it goes way beyond “kids being kids.” They claim that they cannot sit outside and enjoy their OWN yards because all they can hear is these girls shreiking and screaming. They tried to have the parents fined for breaking noise ordinances. They say (and have audiotape) that the girls go at this for upwards of 30 minutes at a time, just screaming and screaming. One neighbor next door erected a fence, put up a huge hedge, and installed a waterfall in an effort to drown out the noise and even those steps didn’t work.

Take a look (and listen) to the video and tell me what you think. When does every day play noise become disruptive enough to take legal action? The neighbors say they’ve asked the parents to teach their kids to respect the neighborhood and keep it down, but it hasn’t helped at all. The parents say that the girls are just having fun and seriously just do not get why the neighbors are pissed. They were like “Yeah, we’ll try to keep them quieter.”

I personally think that having that kind of noise going on all the time would drive me bonkers. I would be on the side of the neighbors and filing complaints about it. I think everyone has the right to enjoy peace and quiet in their own yard and someone elses noise shouldn’t infringe upon that, especially on a regular basis.

There must be other people out there that feel the way the parents do- kids are kids and they’re just having fun, but I seriously can’t see how anyone can defend kids screaming and screaming for that period of time on a consistant basis.

I would love to hear other opinions on this.

ETA: Here is the text of the article, although I think it helps a lot to hear the actual tape in order to weigh in.

2

As a childless, single woman, I can’t side with the “kids being kids” camp. I watched the video and the audio tape they played with the 30-minute example…well, it speaks for itself. Plus, the neighbors complaining weren’t just a bunch of crabby old people or stuck up DINKs (dual income, no kids) - it was a mix of a lot of different kinds of people, some with kids - none of them agree that it’s just “kids being kids.”

I work at home, in a neighborhood where there’s plenty of kids plus dirtbikes, ATVs, thumpin’ stereos, yardwork, squealing tires, bouncing basketballs, etc. I can deal with all of that, and do deal with it on a regular basis.

But nothing, NOTHING pierces the eardrums more than a young girl screeching. Especially when it’s persistent. Last summer there was a girl 3 houses down and across the street selling lemonade during the day. She was screaming about this lemonade for at least an hour. Of all the noises I’ve had to endure, that has so far been the worst.

3

I grew up in a neighborhood with a lot of kids, but we also had a huge yard with a bit of a buffer. There were only three houses on our side of the block, whereas the other side of the street had at least 6. So we had plenty of space.

Still, my parents were absolutely vigilant about being good neighbors. My mom had a rule–if she heard us screaming, we were going to have to come in. She said she didn’t want the neighbors disturbed, and if kids were going to be screaming she didn’t want anyone looking out their window and seeing HER kids as part of the problem.

There were a few times we had to come in because of this rule, but it was pretty rare over many years of living there and playing outside as much as possible. We learned quickly that this level of noise was not acceptable, and our friends quickly bought into it, too–they didn’t want to have the game interrupted when we went inside. We still managed to have a blast doing all the normal things kids do (tag, swimming, running through the sprinkler, hide and seek, cops and robbers–you name it. I had the stereotypical small-town upbringing).

Kids can have a LOT of fun without screaming, trust me. And they can learn to adjust how much they raise their voices.

4

No, I’m not going to listen to a tape to decide whether shrieking kids can be annoying.

I’ve got 3 teens, and have lived in a couple of suburbs for the past 21 years, and my conclusion is that this is one of those issues on which people simply disagree, with essentially no middle ground.

I am in the “kids don’t need to shriek” camp, but there is little I can do about it beyond teach MY kids and their guests not to be that way. And it is not at all a difficult thing to teach your kids that they can have fun without shrieking and screaming, and that other people do not want to hear them scream.

Sure, all kids make noise. But there are some kids whose idea of “play” involves a significant amount of shrieking for prolonged periods of time. I consider that rude, inconsiderate, and un-neighborly, and I think any child old enough to play outside is old enough to learn some common courtesy for their neighbors.

But IMO&E there is essentially nothing you can do about it other than poilitely ask them if they could quiet down once or twice. Any more and you run the risk of being publicly characterized as the unreasonable neighborhood crank. It sucks when rude neighbors force you to spend large portions of good weather insider with your windows closed.

5

All right, I gave in to curiosity and watched the link. Suffice it to say that in my experience, there is a near 100% correlation between a parent who says “kids will be kids” with their kid being a jerk and needing discipline.

6

[QUOTE=ZipperJJ]
As a childless, single woman, I can’t side with the “kids being kids” camp.
[/QUOTE]

As a mother of two, neither can I. I say, let’s shoot their parents. That’ll give 'em something to holler about. :wink:

7

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
All right, I gave in to curiosity and watched the link. Suffice it to say that in my experience, there is a near 100% correlation between a parent who says “kids will be kids” with their kid being a jerk and needing discipline.
[/QUOTE]

Did you happen to watch to the end of the piece? The parents of the girls seemed genuinely bewildered over the whole thing like “I dunno, I guess we’ll try to keep them quieter!” Unbelievable, IMHO.

8

[QUOTE=BoBettie]
Unbelievable, IMHO.
[/QUOTE]

Not at all unbelievable IME. To the contrary, all too common.

One of my favorite episodes was when a grade school boy was “teasing” my son, calling him “gay” and telling him to “kiss my ass.” When we spoke with the mom just asking if she could ask her kid to stop since it bothered my son, she mocked our concerns observed “KWBK” and said my kid needed to “toughen up.”

My son realized that he got better grades in school, and started to respond with comments on how “stupid” the other kid was. Guess who complained to the principal about her little darling’s damaged self esteem? :rolleyes:

Nope, nothing at all unusual about clueless parents raising impolite and inconsiderate kids.

9

The parents and loud kids are some bad neighbors. I would side with the people trying to get them to quiet down.

I have lived in my house of 10 years. The neighbors on one side have a pool and grandkids; the neighbors directly behind them have a pool and daughters, now graduated, who have lots of friends. The kids are kids–but not obnoxious kids. We have plently of noise in the neighborhoos–dogs, kids, people having parties outside now that the weather is good. None of that bothers us. But overly loud people suck and should be talked, too.

The neighbors upstreet have a daughter who had a shriek that made you think she must surely be bleeding. But no, she’s just on the trampoline. It wasn’t a constant occurance and as she has gotten older it has gotten better. Sometimes you can’t help the sound of your voice, and that’s okay.

The parents should realize that they live in a neighborhood and that they have to take other people into consideration, even if they think their neighbors are overly sensitive or crazy or whatever.

That’s the way things *should * be. However, some people do whatever they want. These people are assholes. They are everywhere.

10

Well, I’m torn.

The screaming on the neighbors’ recording was WAY past KWBK, IMHO. OTOH, they played less than 5 seconds of it. Was it like that, at that intensity, for the whole half hour? If so, than I totally side with the neighbors. Or did they pick the worst 5 seconds of it to include in the news report, and the rest of the time, they played as they did on the video? In that case, I agree with the parents. The audio recording captured childlike exuberance which is acceptable for very brief, infrequent periods - say, 5 seconds out of every 30-60 minutes. If you can’t handle that level of screaming for short bursts every hour or so, you should seriously consider living in a adults only closed subdivision.

Their behavior on the video was absolutely fine, even a little subdued. It most certainly did NOT match what was on the audiotape. Probably because they knew they were being watched, and so were on their good behavior. Which shows that they CAN behave, if they try, and ought to be taught to do it regularly and respect their neighbors. I give a lot of slack for the occasional uncontrollable squeal, but the general play session should be somewhat controlled.

Also, I have to admit that having so *many *neighbors complain would be a wake up call for me as a parent. One neighbor - she’s a cranky old bat, fergeddaboutit. Two? Well, maybe the girls should tone it down a little. Ten, and some of them have children themselves? Something’s seriously wrong here, and my kids are behaving like hooligans and I should stop it.

So, yeah, I think I’m probably siding with the neighbors, with the BOD that it’s possible the audiotape isn’t all as bad as that sample, but not real likely.

11

There is a shrieker in my neighborhood - she lives (or visits) just down the street. The first few times I heard her I went running outside* because I was sure someone was injured or being abducted. Nope, just playing. So now I ignore it.

*I have no children and have never wanted children. I’ve always said I didn’t have a “maternal instinct” except for kittens. I was laughing at myself when I realized how fast I got to the door the first time I heard that shriek!

12

Since this happened in my neck of the woods, I’ve seen and heard a lot about this case. The local news interviewed many people in the neighborhood many, many, many of them said that the children are not inordinately loud and it seemed more like bad neighbor mojo. Also, the one leading complaining neighbor (the one who put up hedges and a waterfall and all that nonsense) has been complaining about those children for 5 years. Which means she started calling the police on that couple when the first was just 2 years old.

But then, I grew up in apartments in NYC. You learn to live with other people’s noise or you hang yourself.

13

The parents will probably be on the news again in a few weeks complaining about their thoughtless neighbors because one of the kids fell and hit her head or drowned in the pool and the other kid started shrieking like a banshee for help and none of the neighbors payed any attention. :rolleyes:
I saw the news report and if I had to listen to that for 30 minutes at a time I’d call the police. The occasional playful shriek or squeal could be forgiven but this doesn’t sound like an occasional thing.

14

[QUOTE=Biggirl]
Since this happened in my neck of the woods, I’ve seen and heard a lot about this case. The local news interviewed many people in the neighborhood many, many, many of them said that the children are not inordinately loud and it seemed more like bad neighbor mojo. Also, the one leading complaining neighbor (the one who put up hedges and a waterfall and all that nonsense) has been complaining about those children for 5 years. Which means she started calling the police on that couple when the first was just 2 years old.

But then, I grew up in apartments in NYC. You learn to live with other people’s noise or you hang yourself.
[/QUOTE]

I think that’s interesting. If I’m reading and hearing it right, though, the oldest would have been 6 at the time of the first complaints (if it’s been going on that long). I think it’s entirely possible for a 6 year old to be screamy and aggravating. She is 11 now according to the reports.

They did show some other neighbors on the video piece and they were like “Oh, it’s just ridiculous and overkill! It’s not a problem!” but I got the impression that the people complaining were the close by neighbors and the others interviewed weren’t directly affected by it but lived nearby. I may be interpreting that wrong.

I understand living with other people’s noise, but I’ll be the first to admit that neighbor noise in an otherwise quiet neighborhood makes me crazy. I hate the rental house next door because despite the fact that this neighborhood is QUIET and basically full of retirees, people will rent that house and blast music, play ping pong for hours at a time peppered with screams and shouts and “FUCK YEAH!!!” and “NO WAY!!!” and other stuff that I personally consider unreasonable. I think I should be able to sit on my patio in peace and not have to listen to blasting music, screaming from kids in the hot tub, or ping pong for hours on end. I think that probably makes me the cranky old bat next door, but so be it. I’ve asked people on more than one occasion to keep it down. A few weeks ago I called the police because someone was blasting gansta rap music out of the trunk of his car. It was the middle of the day but I called anyway.

What I don’t get is what part of “You’re in a quiet place” makes people think it’s OK to be as loud as they want? My thought is if you want your dogs to bark without care, take them to the dog park. If you want your kids to shreik and scream, bring them to a park or public pool. If you want to blast gansta rap out of your trunk, do it in a loud neighborhood someplace else, not a retirement community. When in Rome, do as the Romans. If everyone in the whole area is quiet and peaceful, be quiet and peaceful. That’s pretty simple.

YMMV. I grew up in a quiet area and have oly lived in a few places that were noisy. It probably gives a different perspective if you grow up someplace loud.

15

Couple of thoughts.

That tape sounded like it had more than just 2 kids on it. I wonder if it was taken during a pool party or something. However, having a neighbor with a barking dog, I believe it can be hard for someone who does not live next door to a specific noise to appreciate the effect.

Also, the reporter describes the area as “a community where the homes are close together, on 1/3 of an acre apiece” (or similar words to that effect). I find that an amazing commentary on American culture - the idea that homes on 1/3 acre lots would be considered anything approaching “close quarters.” An acre is 43,560 sq. ft. 1/3 of that is 14,520 sq. ft. So a 1/3 acre lot could be 100’X145’, or 70’x200’. Not exactly high density in my mind.

16

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Also, the reporter describes the area as “a community where the homes are close together, on 1/3 of an acre apiece” (or similar words to that effect). I find that an amazing commentary on American culture - the idea that homes on 1/3 acre lots would be considered anything approaching “close quarters.” An acre is 43,560 sq. ft. 1/3 of that is 14,520 sq. ft. So a 1/3 acre lot could be 100’X145’, or 70’x200’. Not exactly high density in my mind.
[/QUOTE]

It depends how big the houses are. Here, they’re slapping 3000 sq ft homes on 1/4 acre lots. Yeah, they’re right up on each other, with tiny yards.

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, little kids (girls, especially - what is up with that??), can be really annoying when they do the shrieking thing. We had neighbors once who had three little girls (probably ages 4, 6 & 8) and Saturday afternoons were hellish. Even inside our house, it was piercing and forget about having a quiet drink on the porch. On the other hand, if you don’t want to hear kids, lawn mowers, dogs, music, etc. during normal hours (not the middle of the night), then move to a rural area. It never would have occured to me to even complain to the parents about the kids who lived next to us. I really think people are too high strung sometimes.

17

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]

Also, the reporter describes the area as “a community where the homes are close together, on 1/3 of an acre apiece” (or similar words to that effect). I find that an amazing commentary on American culture - the idea that homes on 1/3 acre lots would be considered anything approaching “close quarters.” An acre is 43,560 sq. ft. 1/3 of that is 14,520 sq. ft. So a 1/3 acre lot could be 100’X145’, or 70’x200’. Not exactly high density in my mind.
[/QUOTE]
Wow. The town zoning laws here forbid you to build on lots smaller than 2 acres! 1/3rd of an acre sounds very small indeed.

I think I side with the neighbors in this case. There’s no reason anyone should be shrieking like that for extended periods of time. No one “needs” to yell like they’re being murdered by a monster out of a horror movie.

18

[QUOTE=C3]
It depends how big the houses are. Here, they’re slapping 3000 sq ft homes on 1/4 acre lots. Yeah, they’re right up on each other, with tiny yards.

[/QUOTE]

Obviously folks aren’t too exercised about this thread. But I just wanted to continue my hijack that acceptance of 3000 sq ft houses as reasonable or normal is yet additional commentary on American culture and values.

And elfkin - a 2 acre lot can be close to 300’X1000’. While I would welcome living in an area with such density, I’m not sure such a “community” would meet most people’s idea of a “town.”

19

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Obviously folks aren’t too exercised about this thread. But I just wanted to continue my hijack that acceptance of 3000 sq ft houses as reasonable or normal is yet additional commentary on American culture and values.

[/QUOTE]

And what does that mean, exactly? I don’t know where you live, Dinsdale, but there’s a whole lot of the US that is not very dense, population-wise. I don’t think it says anything about American culture or values to live in a big house or have a big yard, if you can afford it and you want it.

20

Just to comment, I grew up in a neighborhood that had 1/3 acre lots. The lots were long and narrow, so that while we had a long backyard, the houses were right up next to each other.

Anyway, if the kids really are shrieking all the time, that should stop. As a parent of girls, I say that screaming should be infrequent! A lot of girls do seem to be naturally inclined to scream a lot, but it’s not that hard to train them out of it if you start when they’re three.