If you want to know where a person is from, then ask that. To an American (and probably Canadians and Australians) “Where are you from?” and “What nationality are you?” are distinctly different questions because aboriginal people aside, we’re all descended from people from other countries - American isn’t a legitimate nationality, so obviously someone asking that wants to know what our ancestors were. If you ask where we’re from you’ll get a location as an answer. Ask what nationality we are, you’ll get our pedigree.
This has tripped me up every time I’ve watched The Omen. Near the end of the movie when Damien’s dad rushes him out to the car to throw him in and drive off, I’ve always said to myself…Noooo! You’re going to the wrong side, you need to go to the driver side!!
Then I remember it is the correct side in the UK.
This is a sensible answer - thank you. I have a couple of points in response:
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huge proportions of people in the UK are descended from people of other countries (Hugenots, Germans, West Indians …)
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American is a perfectly legitimate nationality.
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I suspect you may be right about “I’m ” having different meanings in US English - that’s what I meant with my qualification about international English - but note that the “I’m Italian” (or whatever) claim doesn’t come up in response to a question, rather as part of an unsolicited word-pile. I don’t know for sure, but I have never heard a Canadian or an Australian use “I’m Irish” (or whatever) in the American way.
pdts
Boston isn’t a state.
Straw man again! Firstly, I’m not clear what it means to have “valid claim on [a] heritage” - at this point, it’s just DNA, right?
Fact is, the way English is standardly used, such a person is not Irish. To be ‘Irish’ means to have gone through a complex experience - growing up surrounded by Irish news and cultural norms, which are very different from those of the USA. One might be able to stretch it to the child of Irish emigrants, because they will be raised in an Irish-culture household, but no doubt the child of that child will have completely adopted the culture of the host country.
Yes, look into or even celebrate your ancestry. But that’s what it is- ancestry.
There are many, many people of Irish descent in the UK. They do not typically describe themselves as ‘Irish’ - and I think to do so would be seen as an insult to real Irish people, perhaps an attempt to appropriate their national identity.
pdts
I’m pretty sure that the context of “I’m Dutch” usually lets the person know whether he means “I was born in Amsterdam” or “I’m descended from someone born in Amsterdam”. As Spectre said, we have an interest in these cultures that spawned us, specifically the century of ancestral parturition; in Europe you have the buildings, the castles, the battlefields, the churches, the statues, the museums, etc., to connect you to the past should you so desire, for all but the Indians our history here only goes back four centuries. I think it’s great how much we manage to keep alive our connection to past times, and it reminds us of so many things (how a decision in 1692 can affect a life 2008 or how ultimately we really are all in this together).
Being Scots Irish has its own cultural norms and it’s quite a different heritage from being Italian-American or Japanese-American or Cajun. We are a freaking HUGE country that unlike anyplace in Europe or the old world was founded completely by immigrants in very recent recorded history (so recently we can read the documents from Jamestown and understand them).
Make no mistake
WE VERY MUCH UNDERSTAND THAT WE ARE AMERICANS FIRST AND FOREMOST
but by definitions Americans are something else in addition to what they are now. It’s an insult to the memories of our ancestors to forget them.
Anyway, to each his own and bless your heart
Exactly. His surprise was that I was the first American he’d encountered who didn’t do that.
ETA: I see what happened. In editing my first post I accidentally cut the word “surprised”. “…he was surprised that I answered…”
People do say they’re Irish or German or whatever, but they are just referring to their heritage. OK, I admit it’s ambiguous, but an American describing their heritage that way isn’t trying to say they’re the same as someone who is actually from there, and isn’t about to ask you where the nearest consulate is so they can get their dual passport
I wouldn’t tell you I was Dutch, but I would tell you that I am of Dutch heritage. We’re talking now about how I would express it myself, but I think I tend to be a little more precise in my words than usual. I also disapprove of Americans who might have been born in “cool” city, like Manhattan or San Francisco, and continue to tout it as their hometown, even though their parent moved them away when they were two years of age. You never hear anyone do this when the natal town is, for example, Topeka.
I studied abroad. A long time ago. I really had no idea how that offends people (will check out that link later). I just think it’s quite an intolerant attitude and I’m rather astonished to find it exists. That was an unforgettable experience for me–not one that I would ever want to bend the ear of a relative stranger about, as in tediously describe my arrival, what I studied, what my room was like. If that’s the type of thing you are referring to, then I understand completely and agree with you. But forgive me if I mention it in passing! I just might want to provide some evidence that I’ve seen something of the world. I can’t speak for all Americans but I do feel sensitive about that myself, stuck all the way over here on the other side of the country, relatively isolated from world geography.
Shrug you know how to start a Pit thread.
Well firstly, nobody sane has the notion that all Americans voted for Bush twice (though he did have a popular vote majority in the millions in '04). Again, straw man.
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Seriously, I’ve heard this brought up in a way that implies we all did. “You voted for him!” they’ll say. What–they mean me personally? All of us Americans? Or do they mean that I, by association, voted for him even though I didn’t? There are so, so many of us here who despise the war, the suburban mindset that is considered so definitive of who we are, the and the political obsession with rural and small-town values, as if we were living in the year 1870.
I’ve been there and I agree with you. It can be done, I’m sure, but immigration’s always a tricky matter. You guys have all the luck, you can settle anywhere in Europe if you can find a job and speak the language.
Oh, I know plenty of British people of Irish descent who describe themselves as “Irish”.
I also have frequently heard British people describing people who were born and raised in Britain as “pakis” (or more politely as “Asian”). This obsesssion that you can only be whatever country you were born in doesn’t always seem to apply to non-whites.
Here in Ireland (which - note to Aesiron - is not part of the UK) it’s unfortunately quite common to refuse to see the children of Nigerian or Polish or whatever immigrants as “Irish”. Even if those children were born here.
The fact is that there is no universal standard for determining whether somebody is “xish”. In some countries, in some languages, in some dialects even it depends on whether they are of xish birth or xish ancestry. So in British English, apart from the exception noted above, it’s about birth; in American English it can be about either. In some other countries it’s only about ethnicity/ancestry. Nobody is right or wrong here - they’ve just inherited different definitions.
I concur with the statement above that Americans should not try to pass themselves off as Canadians. Speaking as an American in Europe, really, nobody cares.
Man, fuck people who try to be nice, but screw up because they don’t know every one of my stupid hang-ups that hardly anyone else has! :rolleyes:
Most Americans I have had dealings with are over the Internet for an extended period ot through a bust tour many years ago.
I have found them very warm and generous, and unswervingly patriotic in defense of anything American
As in example I once criticised the American health system where someone had to pay over $100,000 for a necessary heart operation. I got jumped on by a number of Americans who said the USA was still the best country in the world- that style of thing.
On that bus tour of years ago, the only ones I couldn’t stand were other Australians (but that wasn’t due to Nationality- they were just miserable).
One thing that I feel is a pretty common perception of Americans, but that I haven’t seen listed above, is that Americans are, erm… REALLY LOUD. It’s not usual here to be able to eavesdrop on someone’s conversation in public without any effort - nor is it appreciated when such a possibility is afforded.
Another thing that I’ve noticed, but that probably says more about my own culture than about Americans, is that people say certain things as social formulas, without actually meaning them. I’m talking about saying things like ‘how are you’ (no reply expected or appreciated) or ‘we should meet for drinks/lunch/hallucinogenic drugs sometime’. Once people say we should meet up sometime, I’ll say, ‘Sure, yeah, when would be good’ and I’ll whip out my schedule to see when we should meet up. This then confuses people who didn’t really want to meet up but were just being nice and friendly.
Eating with fingers. According to an American girl I know, eating chips with a fork makes me look really British (not from a chippy, but from a restaurant). I’d say eating with fingers made her look American 
I lived in Berlin for 14 years and I think the “typical American traits” depend upon where you meet the American and how long they have been there.
Most of my American friends who lived in Berlin easily passed for Europeans…when I would say I was American, I had Germans flat out tell me I was a liar. They thought I was a German “pretending” to be American.
But then I would hear an American tourist on the streets or in a bar or restaurant and realize what they were talking about…we really do speak LOUDLY and we really do dress oddly (compared to Europeans) and we really do eat differently (why do we eat with a fork in our right hand, but switch the fork to the left hand when cutting food?) but Americans do indeed smile more than most people in Europe (a good thing, I think) and Americans are almost always friendly when you meet them, traveling through Europe at least. Also, Americans will go up to other Americans and say hello in Europe, whereas Germans will almost always avoid other Germans like the plague when traveling outside of their country.
Here in the USA, when I have German visitors, they are always amazed at how friendly customer service is here - from the grocery store cashiers, to the waiters and waitresses. And yes, Americans do ask my friends some pretty stupid questions, but the Europeans usually are impressed that they bother to ask. In Europe, it is often considered impolite to be too “nosy” and ask people personal questions. (I will never forget the look on the face of one German friend when, at a bar, some people noticed he was from Germany and one asked, “are you circumcised?”)
I’ve been told my my foreign born coworkers (who outnumber me) that I am very loud. One clarified, “You’re all very loud. And very forthright.”
My maiden name is Italian, and obviously so. I also got my looks from my (first generation) father. Despite being very obviously born in the US, Italians I meet through work always ask me about my ancestry-- where is my family from, how long have they been here, do we keep in contact with anyone the old country, do I speak the language, have I ever been. . . they seem very excited about that shared connection. I don’t know if it’s an Italian thing, or just because they’re on foreign soil so even a little bit is welcome. (It reminds me of the excitement when my Texan husband meets anyone from the south.) It never occurred to me people might find this type of thing offensive.
DMark, my coworkers have commented that I don’t “eat like an American”, by which they mean knife/fork usage. I keep it in my left hand and point the tines down. I have no explanation for this, other than I assume it’s how my parents eat, though they are both US born. I did get told once by a friend’s mother that I held my utensils wrong, but I though it was just, well, wrong, not proper European table manners.
Bit of a weird one, this - I suppose. The cultural divide seems to make each side regard the other as ‘quaint’.
Or at least, I recall hearing Americans describe a variety of British things (physical objects, behaviours, ideas, etc - a real assortment) as ‘quaint’, and yet… From this side, the opposite appears true - for example, continued use of words that are archaic here now (‘gotten’ being the one that springs to mind) and continued use of antiquated weights and measures.
I never found Americans too be especially loud. Granted there were a few at various hotels who were loud, but I think that was more because I took notice of people being obnoxious.
Shrug, that one I do sort of understand, given how many Spaniards have things going over the wars of the last 200 years.
Male Americans are very likely to tell me about their ancestry within minutes of meeting; often, shortly before asking about my marital status. That’s nice, dear, but so long as you’re not from northern Spain you won’t be my cousin. If I ever find myself in a situation to decide whether or not to have your children, whether your ancestry is German, Russian, Indian or Zimbawean won’t matter. I only need details if it happens to be from Navarra, Guipuzcoa, Vizcaya, Asturias, Teruel, Salamanca or Barcelona. Be glad that two of my great-grandparents were from the same town.
This isn’t only Americans; people in general tend to be more boisterous and take a lot more things for granted when at home than abroad. But the only people I’ve encountered who knew I was a foreigner while we were abroad, yet suddenly forgot I might have different cultural assumptions while in their country happened to be American. For example, I’ve had coworkers who needed to be reminded that I don’t think in English when I’m just off the phone with the Latin Americans, while having no problem about my bilingual brain if we were in a meeting in Brazil. Dude, give me a few minutes to change the mental OS here.
Americans are always surprised at how diverse Europe is. They come here knowing that Paris isn’t the same as Rome, but then they’re surprised that Orleans isn’t the same as Paris. Europeans are always surprised at how big the regions of America are (I mean, not “Illinois” but “the sea of corn,” as a Californian friend called it). Europeans are always surprised that distances that look huge to them (dude, four hours in a car is not “right here”) are “right here” to an American (whadaya mean? it’s a day trip! four hours to go, stay in the beach for two hours, four hours back).
American book writers need to be better at documentation. Seriously. I’m sure that finding a Colombian (not someone born in the USA of a Colombian and a Puerto Rican parent) to translate “hey man, gimme a cig” into Colombian for your guerrilla novel can’t be so effing hard in a country renowned by the amount of immigrants living in it. No, it’s not “oye hombre, da aqui una cigareta.”
I plan to be in Albania next month… I have gotten pretty used to the 'Down with USA" attitude everywhere, it’ll seem weird to be in a non-US, pro-US place.
Whaddid ya do? Go on one of those Factory Outlet cruises of all the bra shops??
