I posted before on the topic of Irish-Americans. When I came to understand what an American meant when they said they were Irish it no longer annoyed me.
Anyway here’s what I had to say:
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9100898&postcount=36
I sometimes see in my brother’s shop in Blanchardstown (suburb of Dublin), a bunch of kids come in, one of African parentage, another Asian, another Eastern European and them all talking in Dublinese. A Slovakian girl I met where I live was lamenting that her 9 year old son can’t communicate with his grandmother back home.
The one that I’ve found to be the most true (after Americans generally being very friendly an polite) is that they have no idea about anything outside their own borders, and if they do, it’s Canada/Mexico/Spent a year in Europe/UK.
I’ve had a number of Americans admit they’ve got no idea where Australia is beyond “In the South Pacific Somewhere”, and most of the ones I’ve met who do know where Australia is are unable to name another city besides Sydney.
Yet I get strange looks when I confess that I’m not familiar with Asinine, NM or Copperfeel Creek, OR in the US.
So it’s OK for you to not know where one of the largest countries (by land area) on the planet is, but it’s not OK for me to never have heard of some hick town in the backwaters of a state miles from anywhere of interest?
What I describe myself depends on the circumstances. You may choose to describe me as ‘of Irish descent’, and many people would understandably have no inkling that I’m not pure British, for nothing about me or my life particularly suggests anything but Englishness, and I have a Welsh first name and English surname. However, the fact is that I am Irish. My passport, and Irish nationality law, say so. I’m also British, in the eyes of British law, although I’ve never actively asserted that right.
So…there’s situations in which I choose to actively self-identify as Irish. There’s other times when I won’t, and I’ll more helpfully refer to the fact that I’ve lived my whole life in England, that this will always feel like home, that I’m a Suffolk boy at heart. That I ‘come from England’ is the phrase I generally use when in Ireland.
On this board, I’m sure some people will have noticed me refer to myself at a Brit. Because it’s the quickest way to tell an international audience the pertinent bits of all this. Other times, when the question is asked of nationality but the context means upbringing, I’ll do other things such as describe myself as ‘British-born’.
OK, perhaps put down the sabre will accept me as a ‘real’ Irish person after all. However, I don’t think it should come down to which little red book you can get. Other people in quite similar situations to mine may nonetheless not have legal recognition as being of Irish nationality, but this doesn’t necessarily make it inappropriate for them to describe themselves as such in some situations.
Friendly, chatty, generous are the first three adjectives that come into my head, based on my interactions with Americans IRL. And with a sharper sense of humour than the stereotype gives you credit for.
You’ve really run into that often? I have never met an American that uses Brit for the Irish or the Scottish.
Not that I have travelled out of the US much, but I always found “the New York area” worked anywhere and saying “Jersey” was met with blank states or confusion. “US, New York City area” worked well.
**SomeBodyUK **& put down the sabre: I think you’re getting and missing the American viewpoint at the same time. My Sister-In-Law is from Costa Rica but of Swedish descent. To us that means she is Swedish from Costa Rica and nothing more or less. We just tend to think in terms of family origins much more than Europeans & Asians apparently. It is especially strong among families of Irish and Italian descent for some reason.
Americans I’ve met in person?
That’s quite different from the ones I meet here (a broad spectrum of humanity) or the ones I see on Jerry Springer (assholes).
The ones I’ve actually met have invariably been lovely, warm, friendly people. Of course, there might be socio-economic stuff at play here, as they are the ones who can afford to, and have the desire to, travel (I’ve not set foot in the USA).
The only negative stuff I could truthfully say is that I’d feel comfortable with perpetuating the idea that (some) Americans abroad are loud and obnoxious in greater numbers than those of other nationalities (London-based backpackers excepted). The problem is, those Americans I’ve met who are loud and obnoxious also tend to fall into the “genuinely friendly, kind, give-you-the-shirt-off-your-back” group as well; they’d probably be personally mortified if they knew how they were being received.
But as a host citizen to American tourists in my country, I have a generally positive opinion of them.
There’s the “the whole world wants to hear my opinion” thing too. This can be obnoxious, or it can be actually positive: we secretly admire Americans who speak up about bad service, or American children who will answer an adult stranger’s “How are you?” not with a shy monosyllabic “good” like an Aussie kid, but with an articulate and lengthy answer starting with, “Well, I’ll tell ya!”
White sneakers.
Who said I was referring to Irish at all? I’ve never met one in real life. Only English and Scots.
But that IS standard English, or rather, American English. You’re just not speaking the same language.
I’ll agree with the friendly and open description of Americans (and good senses of humour, too), and I’ll add my own observation - Americans seem to be sort of “in your face” about stuff. It seems they are more likely to ask for anything and expect you to say yes or no, where Canadians may be more likely to consider whether the request is reasonable or not before asking. I’ve also noticed a real lack of interest in other people in the US; when we go traveling and people in far away places in the US find out we’re from Calgary, there is usually very little interest. If it were reversed and someone from Kansas was here, we would be very interested in what brought them so far, etc.
And that “uh huh” instead of “you’re welcome” thing is indeed off-putting. 
As for the nationality thing, when talking with other Canadians, we assume we are all nationally Canadian; discussing where our ancestors are from is just a fun exercise we do. When meeting someone from Ireland or Holland, we would not likely call ourselves Irish or Dutch to them; there is indeed context for these discussions.
I met some tourists from Denmark at a bar a few weeks ago and they remarked on how friendly the Americans they had met were.
The bartender was less friendly, however, because they left without leaving a tip.
You know, when I read about this upthread, I thought “who the hell does that?” But about ten minutes ago, someone had cause to thank me, and I automatically answered “uh huh!” So, never mind. I’ve never thought about it before, I guess, but maybe “you’re welcome” sounds more formal?
I suspect that the ethnicity/nationality thing really depends a lot on where precisely you’re talking about. My ancestors on my dad’s side are from Eastern Europe, and when I’ve met people from those countries and I mentioned that my great-grandparents were from Ukraine/Estonia/Lithuania, they’ve seemed genuinely delighted and disappointed I don’t speak their native languages or Russian. (Of course, they were all Jews and spoke Yiddish, anyway.) Back in Bulgaria, I had a few people ask me where my ancestors were from, and when I told them the various Eastern European countries, they got excited because I’m a Slav! (Except I’m not. But oh well.)
OTOH, I know better than to tell an Irish person that I’m Irish, although my mom’s people were from Ireland. They seem a lot more annoyed by it. Well, also I don’t feel particularly connected to my, ahem, heritage, so I wouldn’t say that anyway.
I think a distinction has gotten lost in the crowds, perhaps. I have absolutely no problem with Americans who say things like…
I’m of xish descent
My grandparents were yish [like the Ukrainians mentioned above]
Oh I studied abroad in London, it was nice. What do you study?
or even:
I’m zish [where the context makes it clear what is meant]
though I don’t really like the latter. But the context is also not obvious all the time:
I met several Americans at a party in Kyoto, in our English-speaking circle of chat there were about 3 or 4 americans, 2 or 3 Brits, and 1 or 2 Canadians, Kiwis and Aussies. Clearly, international English is the order of the day (it would be rude for me to go on about ‘fucking bollocks, mate’ or for Americans to say they ‘might could help you move but can’t drive a stick, buddy’). Now, inevitably, the topic of origins comes up. Someone tells me “I’m Irish.” I get very excited - I’ve spent a lot of time in Ireland, love the place, can be there in a few hours from my house, etc. “Where are you from? Dublin, Cork, the North”.
“Uhh no, Seattle actually”.
Awkward. The American of Irish descent feels embarrassed, and I try to rescue the conversation. This happened semi-frequently, and I wasn’t the only one to notice it.
Also, if you want to tell me in great tedious detail about your study abroad, please wait until you’ve known me more than 30 seconds. And then, please try to make it a two-sided conversation.
Imagine this. You’reon holiday in England, and you meet a local. She says “Oh I lived in DC for a few years” and says a few pleasantries. Nice, right? Not imagine instead of a few pleasantries she goes on and on about how unlike those other ignorant Europeans she really likes root beer, has barbecue the way it’s meant to be made, reads the Atlantic and had the time of her life walking up and down the National Mall, it was just so quaint, I think people in America just are more civilised, right … a bit less endearing, especially when it reaches the 3 or 4 minute mark? And you might not want to give the socially mandated ‘wow, you know so much about America, not like your compatriots, I see you are very well-educated’ response.
Now imagine you live in England, sometimes just want to blend in and buy your coffee or whatever, and this happens every day. It’s a small thing, but do you see where I’m coming from?
pdts
It’s just geography. I don’t think most Americans have been to Europe or the UK at all, let alone spent any time there. The “student” part of “student year abroad” is key; students generally arrange loans, have scholarships, or have parental support, and do not need to earn their living while they are there. Once you enter the working world, it’s damn near impossible, because only certain limited occupations and job levels will give Americans the chance to take long-term or permanent jobs over there. English teachers are one exception, but in many other fields, it isn’t the functional workers who get to go, but the branch managers and executives.
Then just visiting over there becomes increasingly more difficult. You have career and family obligations at home. Flights are expensive, and the way exchange rates are now, we have to watch our pennies like a miser while we’re there.
I think that’s why we cling to these experiences from our youth.
I’ve traveled all over America and have found telling people where I grew up is, generally speaking, pointless. They don’t know and don’t care. If I say, “I’m from Boulder City, Nevada,” they will probably just give me a blank look or move on. If I say, “I’m from the Las Vegas area,” they will excitedly tell me about when they last visited Las Vegas, or about a friend who retired there, or tell me about what they think of dry summer heat, or something else along those lines.
So, it doesn’t require any international travel either way to run into this.
US American that grew up in Britain here. I live in Texas now.
I have never noticed people not responding with “You’re welcome,” or “Don’t worry about it,” or “No problem” to “Thank you.” If someone said “Yes” or “Uh-huh” I would not only think of it as rude, but not even a logical response to the statement!
Of course, on the scale of rudeness, it’s fairly minor. No response at all is incredibly rude.
My assessment of Americans abroad, specifically as someone who lived “on the economy” for a long time:
[ul]
[li]Talk louder in conversation than most other nationalities, except the French. I swear I can hear two French-speaking people a block away.[/li][li]Are in to the concept of personal space. I count myself in this number. I bristle when I’m touched or nudged by people I don’t know, even on the underground or on a bus.[/li]We tend to be surprised to see stuff we consider to be “American” elsewhere. Case in point: I was shocked to find a pub in London had Budweiser. (Obviously, I asked “why?” Same when I saw a Yoshinoya restaurant in Malaysia.[/ul]
That’s the crux of the argument here. You (Spectre of Pithecanthropus etc.) can’t take ownership of being Dutch any more than Wayne Rooney can, because unless you make an incredibly special effort (which most of these “I’m German! I’m Irish!” etc. people don’t) to, you probably have very little in common with anyone who actually lives in the Netherlands. You can take ownership of having Dutch heritage, and yes, that’s a special thing with a lot of history and it’s all very cool, but don’t tell me that it shapes your very identity in more than a distant, abstract way.
Is it really so hard to say “American”? Everyone knows what it means. Nobody’s going to think you’re talking about Canadians. Do you continue to call black people “boy” after they’ve asked you not to?
Sounds like this is a universal trait rather than a fault of Americans.
Not very, at least without a college degree and/or a Canadian relative. Speaking French helps too. Those last two are pretty rare in my neck of the woods and I’m working on the first one, but as of now it doesn’t look promising at all.
Yes, I suppose you tell yourself and anyone who will listen how Dutch you are on a regular basis, and that you have a pang from deep within your DNA to wear wooden shoes, but somehow you’ve never had the courage to act upon it. Meanwhile, my ancestors came to America to escape slavery in the 20th century, only so that I could grow up in a small Christian town where everyone except my family and my congregation thought I was going to Hell and many told me so. That was my childhood and that is a big part of what makes me who I am. The very idea that your faint desire to wear clogs is anything like my identity as a Jew is offensive and belittling. I suspect many people who actually have a legitimate claim to Dutch identity would find it offensive, too.
OTOH, after Sampiro’s post I have to add that it is nice that you make an effort to put together your heritage and remember the decisions your ancestors made that would shape your life. I can appreciate that.
Also, after this:
I’m starting to think you’re barking up the wrong tree. My specific qualm is with people who say “I am [insert nationality that doesn’t belong to them]” and equivocate that with my identity as Jewish and/or queer.
Of course it is. If you grew up in America, went to American schools, listened to American bands, watched American TV, and did American things with your American friends, you’re American.
Taking potshots at my identity isn’t “nice”, regardless of whether or not you crack a joke about yourself first. It’s doubly offensive if you try to equivocate some distant heritage you claim to the reality that I live every day. I doubt that this is anywhere near as rare as you say it is.
Think of it as a less-refined variation of “But of course!”
Sorry, I misconstrued your statement above. I find it bizarre that Brits would have any problem with Americans calling themselves Irish. It’s hardly as if it matters.