First, are children all across the country required to have all their vacines up to date before starting kindergarten or 1st grade? I know my brother and I both had to have our shots before registering for schools, but that’s only two states, Massachusetts and New Hampshire, that I’m positive about(and then, that was during the 80’s.)
As for my real question, assuming all kids are still required to have their vacines, with so many parents (or perhaps it’s only a very vocal few, I haven’t seen stats) refusing to have the MMR given to children because of its suspected link to autism, how do they get their kids into school? I have heard of an exemption on religious grounds, but fear is not a religion.
Each state enacts its own laws for each vaccine. IIRC, at least 48 states require MMR for school entry but at least 48 have “religious” exemptions, about 25 have “personal belief” exemptions and all have medical exemptions. So it’s pretty easy to avoid getting vaccinated. Fortunately, despite a lot of nonsense spouted on the net and CSPAN, over 95% (IIRC) of parents do the right thing and protect their children against MMR.
It varies from state to state Elfkin. I think there is a at least one state (Florida?) which will not allow any exemption.
Yeah WRT your selfrighteous comment about autism and MMR, can you tell me if you have a kid or kids on the autism spectrum? Have you any idea what it is like to live with kids on the ASD? If you do have any clue, can you explain to me how you could choose to risk your kid? I look at the research and no, I’m not entirely convinced that MMR is the total cause of autism but there is NO FREAKING way I’m gonna risk worsening the condition of my kids. I think I am relying on the herd immunity of other kids but there’s no way I am making an uninformed decision. But I’ve seen nothing from the pro vaccination side which convinces me that for my particular kids it is an OK choice. Most of the non vaccinating parents I know are making considered choices which are not based on ignorance or on what you read in the media. Not vaccinating does carry risks, I’m not sticking my head in the sand but I am scared for my kids either way.
I’ve just had to convince a doctor that I am making an informed choice on behalf on my kids both here and in NZ.
Her first week of elementary school I did have all the records I needed on hand. The school sent an exemption home for me to sign and return - didn’t even have to ask for it. I provided her records the following year.
Primiflora: “Yeah WRT your selfrighteous comment about autism and MMR, can you tell me if you have a kid or kids on the autism spectrum? Have you any idea what it is like to live with kids on the ASD? If you do have any clue, can you explain to me how you could choose to risk your kid? I look at the research and no, I’m not entirely convinced that MMR is the total cause of autism but there is NO FREAKING way I’m gonna risk worsening the condition of my kids. I think I am relying on the herd immunity of other kids but there’s no way I am making an uninformed decision. But I’ve seen nothing from the pro vaccination side which convinces me that for my particular kids it is an OK choice. Most of the non vaccinating parents I know are making considered choices which are not based on ignorance or on what you read in the media. Not vaccinating does carry risks, I’m not sticking my head in the sand but I am scared for my kids either way.”
You suggest that some comment of mine was selfrighteous. I said, “Fortunately, despite a lot of nonsense spouted on the net and CSPAN, over 95% (IIRC) of parents do the right thing and protect their children against MMR.” Are you telling me there is NOT a lot of nonsense spouted on the net and on CSPAN? Are you telling me that more than 5% of parents have autistic (spectrum) kids? As for your questions, any psychiatric or neurological problems my kids may have are irrelevant and yes, I have some idea what it is like to live with kids on the ASD. I can’t explain to you how I could risk my kid because I wouldn’t risk my kid. I would, however, protect them with MMR since I do NOT believe there is any causal relationship between MMR and autism. There is more evidence that eating prunes causes autism than there is for MMR causing autism.
Unless you can identify something I wrote that is “selfrighteous,” I think you owe me an apology. We all sympathize with you but having children with ASD is no justification for insulting people just because you think they may not agree with you on a controversial topic.
Yeah wrote: 'Fortunately, despite a lot of nonsense spouted on the
net and CSPAN, over 95% (IIRC) of parents do the right thing and protect their
children against MMR."
The words ‘do the right thing’ strike me as self righteous. I think I am doing the right thing by making an informed choice. I respect your choice to make different choices but there is no way I am going to say that my choice is ‘right’ and parents who choose differently are ‘wrong’. I can’t see that I insulted you. I didn’t call you ignorant or wrong.
I assume that people have looked at the info and reached different conclusions. I don’t have an issue with that. Personally I’d rather risk measles, mumps and rubella than MMR induced brain damage.
What have you read that is so convincing that Wakefield et al are wrong? I read it and I think we are beginning to identify risk factors for certain types of autism. By no means am I going to say it is conclusive but for me personally, I’m not taking that risk on my kids behalf.
As for nonsense spouted on the net and on Cspan - sure there’s nonsense spouted on the net. I wouldn’t know what Cspan is. But there is also good information and I don’t think you can make a sweeping generalisation that the parents who choose not to vaccinate are doing so out of ignorance.
And one last point - I wasn’t asking for sympathy, I was pointing out that some parents who don’t vaccinate do so with good reason. I don’t appreciate being called ignorant.You won’t risk your kids (?) to measles or mumpr or rubella. I won’t risk my kids to MMR induced brain damage.
Regarding MMR and autism; it’s been looked at by quite a few experts I trust, and no evidence of a link has been found by them. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? It does not seem so to me. I don’t hesitate to vaccinate my patients, nor my own children. I’ve seen kids rendered sterile by mumps, suffering from pneumonia or encephalitis as a consequence of measles, and seen the congenital damage done when mom wasn’t immunized and baby was infected in utero. These types of complications had been decreasing over the years since immunizations were started, but spiked in the late 80’s and early 90’s, as the number of kids who weren’t immunized increased. I remember taking care of those kids, calling public health officials, quarantining them. I remember worrying about my pregnant patients who were in the office the same day as a rubella kid was, and having to track all of them down, especially the young women who could have been pregnant, and checking their immume status for rubella. I remember these women being scared that their baby might be at risk, and angry that this disease was recurring because people weren’t getting vaccinated as regularly.
Any woman who gets pregnant without being immunized for rubella should be afraid of more than being exposed.
I think it’s entirely irresponsible to expect that everyone elses children will be immunized when you haven’t bothered yourself. I think that every menstruating woman should be, and every sexually mature male should be sure he’s been immunized for mumps. It’s no ones fault but your own if you contract them as an adult.
This was also in the era where we’d just discovered that the MMR wore off sooner than anticipated, and many people who had received the standard sets of immunizations were just finding out that they weren’t necessarily immune anymore, and needed another booster. Unfortunately, the population affected by this was generally the young adults who were often starting families. I actually had a situation where a woman came in to have her MMR titres checked and to see if she was pregnant. She was in the office the same day as a kid with rubella. (Kid came in with rash and fever, got confirmed as rubella 36 hours later). Fortunately the woman was still immune.
After 20 years in medicine, I’ve discovered it never helps me or my patients when I get judgemental. Not that I don’t get that way; it just never helps.