Noone is born atheist

Great Debates
421

That’s kind of the point isn’t it? This is a debate forum. It still confuses me as to why testifying is allowed in here. Every time someone testifies in here they get called on it, and every time they just trot the same old junk we’ve seen time and time again and expect our 100% agreement. Sometimes, it’s just efficient to skip right the scorn.

Well, no, but they work just as well as everything else. Completely and totally ignoring them is about the only thing that works, but some of them still don’t take the hint.

422

I actually can draw distinctions between different types of love, but it irks me when some believers claim god “loves” us because there is nothing to indicate it’s even remotely true. It makes me question her use of the word in any context.

423

Why not just tell them we’ve already discussed it many times rather than ask for evidence you know doesn’t exist? You can even be direct and ask them if they have anything interesting other than the usual witnessing. I don’t think the scorn is all that efficient.

to each his own. I enjoy some healthy sarcasm occasionally.

424

I get that. Those kind of platitudes are easy to throw around but in the light of harsh reality what do they mean?

425

Cosmosdan, I think I’m starting to understand (after all these years!) where you’re coming from with your take on spirituality. I think we’re pretty close in terms of realizing we’re part of the “greater whole.” I think where we differ is that I don’t call that “human” energy god. And I’m not sure, but I think you do. It sounds like you don’t consider this “human” god to be omnipotent, separate, or infallable. Am I close? If so, why call it “god?”

426

I would say that my take on spirituality has changed over those years. I hope it’s a work in progress.

It can depend on who I’m talking to. I’m not attached to the term god and sometimes I do think it’s detrimental precisely because of the separate ruling being concept it means to most believers. To me it means a higher consciousness. How it all works I don’t know. I don’t have to know. I accept that to many people that term is a useful vehicle in their own attempt to understand.

When talking to good folks like yourself and my agnostic and atheist real life friends and family then dealing with the principles seems a more appropriate and useful way of communicating and finding common ground.

Is this higher consciousness a separate entity? No. Infallible, and/or omnipotent. Omniscient? I don’t know. You’ve probably seen me write before that it’s about love and truth. I’d say it feels to me like there is a source that we draw from but maybe it’s more that we aren’t seeing the big picture. The more we are able to see it, our expanded understanding slowly. sometimes painfully, makes progress for humanity. My own spiritual experiences have been feeling like I’m connecting to something greater than myself that lent clarity and understanding.
All the questions about life after death and the details of what exactly this higher consciousness is will eventually reveal themselves. Speculation is okay but the division created by different terminology and embracing speculation and tradition as fact, seems very counter productive. What we have is now. This moment and this life, to do something positive with.

Whoops,…sorry for the partial sermon. Did I answer your questions?

427

I bet you’re into that whole 12-step cult too. Let me guess-- YOU are not an alcoholic or drug addict, but you suffer from “co-dependency” and attend Al-Anon cult meetings religiously. Nuttiness begets more nuttiness, I guess.

Suppose you try taking responsibility for your own life instead of leaving everything up to an imaginary “higher power” to decide. Nobody’s going to save you from yourself but yourself. But, you’re going to need to grow up and put on your big girl pants first. That’s a very difficult and scary thing to do but you’ll never get there by denying reality and denying your responsibility to yourself and others.

I’m sorry to tell you this but your imaginary buddy is NOT going to make everything turn out alright in the end. This is real life. Wake up while you still have some of your life left to live–cuz yor’re going to be really pissed when you finally realize, on your deathbed, that you’ve been deluding yourself and others your entire life.

428

Yeah, I still don’t think I get it 100%, but since you admit you don’t either, we’re cool. :wink: I agree that cooperation among people (many of them with different motivators) equals strength (hopefully) toward the greater good. It can also backfire, because we’re only human and sometimes the (perceived) bad guys get the upper hand. I have no reason to believe there will be a revelation regarding life after death or our “purpose” on Earth. We just “are” until we “aren’t”. If we can have a positive impact most of the time, that’s a plus. But since we’re all different, the definition of “positive” will vary.

As I sit here doing my morning Coffee Talk with Mr. K and CNN, I see that Israel is bombing the living fuck out of Hamas. I’m sure someone thinks that’s a good idea, but I’m not exactly jumping out of my chair and cheering. To listen to some people, one would think a god is behind this action. If that’s god, I have no interest in subscribing to his newsletter.

429

You’re welcome. I hope this is helpful to you.

Love - Jesse.

430

More circle games, as far as I can tell (biblical passages and your posting style hurt my eyes). What is the test, Jesse??? All it says is that if the prophet believes in christ then it’s the truth, and if it doesn’t, it’s all a lie. What the fuck kind of logic is that? What the fuck kind of answer is that to his question?

431

Morning Kalhoun.

I need to keep this brief.

Why don’t you let Justin decide whether his question has been answered or not?

For future reference, I don’t respond to posts containing profanity. I responded to this one so you won’t have to wonder why I’m ignoring you if you choose to keep it up.

Love - Jesse.

432

Foir the record, you don’t respond to a lot of posts that *don’t *contain profanity.

433

I’ve come to think that contention {not the kind you’re seeing on CNN} is a part of growth and progress. It makes people think and examine themselves and their position. Although it seems futile at times I think progress is being made.

I saw some of the footage on CNN the other day and then photos of bloody children and dead bodies on the web yesterday. It’s tragic and disheartening. I don’t know all the details but I can’t see that returning violence X 10 for violence is any sort of solution. If the US continues it’s somewhat unconditional support for Israel we’re in for more violence in the M.E. Israel and the Palestinians reminds me of the relationship between the US government and native Americans. For some reason our violence was justified while theirs was savagery. Our inconsistency in supporting human rights will come with a price.

434

It might be helpful if you would explain the passages you quoted instead of just slapping up some scripture and then going, “There!”

Unfortunately, I can’t get past the fact that scripture is written by men and, as such, subject to being taken with a grain of salt.

435

It’s a public message board. If you’re going to speak in tongues, you need to expect that some of us might be annoyed. You’re pretty good at the private message thing. If you’re speaking only to Justin, you can use that feature.

436

I agree. Contention (small “c”) helps us sort things out. The kind of contention we’re seeing in the Middle East (in the name of god!!! WTF!!) isn’t the answer. It’s part of an endless string of paybacks. None of them will be happy until the other side is obliterated.

agreed. Sigh…:frowning:

437

I’m trying, FI, I’m trying. I don’t have an abundance of ‘free’ time at the moment as I’m working to a deadline and will be until the end of April. I know I owe you a post or two. - Jesse.

438

Nothing you tell them works, including that you’ve heard it all before. Everyone thinks that they have the real thing, that their thing is real, that no one can question their beliefs cuz they’re right, etc. They’re aren’t used to be questioned, especially by people who have heard all the arguments and are good at it. They aren’t going to listen anyway, the only reason to argue with them is for people who are watching. Letting arguments go unchallenged can be seen as agreement. Ideas that deserve scorn should be scorned.

Sarcasm is a form of scorn…

439

It’s not a matter of what works or expecting to change their minds. It’s a matter of what type of communicator you choose to be, and how that affects those you communicate with and those who witness the communication.

I did not suggest letting the argument go unchallenged. Quite the contrary. I think consistent and persistent correction backed with as many facts as possible is called for. If someone willingly comes to a public board for discussion they should expect to be challenged. The problem with that last sentence is is deciding who gets to set the standard of which ideas deserve to be scorned.

it can also be a form of humor and sometimes I get carried away to the point where I piss people off. For the most part I prefer respectful disagreement to ridicule and insults. YMMV

440

I hope you find time to address my comments in post # 414.