Cosmodan - I’m hoping to find time to address all your comments. I enjoy conversing with you, and while we may not agree on every point, I do believe we essentially admire and hold as good most of the same things in life, such as love, truth, peace, kindness, goodness, understanding, compassion - all the good stuff.
Where we differ, and will probably always differ, is that I believe in The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, and if I’m understanding you correctly, you don’t.
Christians, or the ones I associate with (I wouldn’t presume to speak for all Christians) do believe we’re all part of a greater whole, but we believe we’re slowly being transformed into the Image of Christ, Who is a ‘Perfect reflection of The Father.’ So, we don’t agree on the details, but it appears we agree conceptually. I’ll write more when I can spare the time, but it can’t be today.
The difficulty in communication between us regarding the points you made, is that I believe the Bible is the Word of God. Just a wild guess, but I doubt that’s a surprise to you. So, when I’m asked something and as I believe and understand it GOD has an answer in the Bible, I’m going to give that answer and consider it as the Truth, while fully understanding that you may not accept it as such.
I understand that Jesse. I’d expect you to consider your interpretation of the Bible to be the Truth. There is a subtle difference that I think is important. “As I believe and understand it” is another way of saying “it’s my opinion” so saying your opinion is irrelevant is inaccurate. It’s an obvious fact that even those who consider the Bible to be the Word of God don’t agree on what it means. I think that observance has to temper their understanding of how we are to react to and revere those words. Believing then Bible is the Word of God doesn’t prevent your or others, opinion, personal experiences and preferences, from influencing how you interpret it.
I’d guess from your other posts that you know your personal journey is an ongoing one and your understanding of God and the scriptures will grow. Can I assume your prayer is to better understand and better serve God through Jesus and the Holy Spirit?
My own beliefs are a work in progress and I try to discern how much of my own ego and personal preference is standing in the way of a better understanding. If it works that way for you as well then it’s important to realize that the interpretation and understanding you have of the Word of God now that forms your belief system is, in reality, an opinion as well.
I think acknowledging that helps promote understanding and keeps us open to more growth.
Aaaaargh! I wouldn’t have answered anything else today were it not from you! I’m not great at multitasking since my mind is presently focused and in the year 2034 and an entirely different reality. LOL!
When I made (and make) a point out of saying ‘As I believe and understand it’ it’s my effort to show that I recognize that I am fallible and that people should be looking to GOD and not me for their answers. I try not to give my opinion, but I suppose since it’s my belief (you’d say opinion) that the Bible is the word of God, that statement is subjective.
My prayers all boil down to “Thy Will be done,” with not a few ‘I’m sorry’s’ thrown into the mix. I mess up a lot in areas that aren’t apparent to people on this forum. I think uncharitable thoughts sometimes, I even say words I hate occasionaly, so my ‘I’m sorry’ list is long and I’m working on it with GOD’s help.
I mostly thank GOD and pray for others, but as I believe I’ve written somewhere on this forum (I may be incorrect about this), I ask GOD every morning, after thanking Him for the day, to accept me as a ‘Living sacrifice and my members for works of righteousness.’ I ask Him to make His Will for me plain to me that I may do it, and I ask for the discernment to recognize the leading of The Holy Spirit and for the wisdom to understand His Word. Of course, I’d like to understand GOD better (no one knows Him fully but Jesus) , but do feel that my relationship with Him has deepened over the years and decades and, if I’m spared, I hope (pray) that Grace will continue. I do not pray by rote, to me that’s meaningless, and I believe (what I prefer to say instead of I know) that life is one long prayer, punctuated by shorter more intense ones.
I also specifically ask Jesus to teach me to LOVE as He does and to let me view all people and things through His eyes. I often ask Him that several times a day.
Do I have an ego? I hope not, as I try hard to avoid the sin of pride. Not to worry though, it’s frequently on my ‘I’m sorry’ list too.
I’m Celtic, I have a Celtic spirit, and sometimes it comes out to play when I’m pushed too far, which wouldn’t be possible were I better Christian. That’s frequently on my ‘I’m sorry’ list.
Do I have preferences? I honestly don’t think so. Whatever GOD wants is what I want too. Unless GOD is willing to make an exception where marriage is concerned and let me have my Brian ‘forever’ (not something I remotely expect), I’m unaware of having an ambition or a preference if, in reality, I do have either one.
Now I’m really going back work this time! Onward to 2034!
P.S. Sorry for any and all spelling mistakes, missed words, or grammatical errors. I’m typing at hyperspeed here and I’m bound to have messed up along the way. I hope the meaning and intent behind my words is clear. - Jess.
This is part of the problem. It’s not just christianity that is an opinion. It’s the existence of any flavor of god that is opinion as well. If you’re an atheist, there is no god to turn to for answers. If you’re a non-biblical believer, the answers aren’t in the bible. ALL OF IT is your opinion, and no amount of biblical quoting will ever change that. When you present your opinion and back it up only with biblical cites, it brings nothing to the conversation.
Kalhoun - no it isn’t all my opinion. I have experiences, not delusions, that have proven to me beyond a scintilla of doubt that not only does GOD exist, but He’s the GOD of the Bible, He loves me (and you) and while I don’t expect you to believe or entertain any of my experiences, or the facts I’ve just stated, they did happen, they are factual, I have witnesses for many of them, and it just doesn’t matter whether you believe them or not. My experiences are not the Gospel.
As for preaching the Gospel. My first preference is to go with what a wise man once said. ‘Preach the Gospel daily; if necessary use words.’ Most people would rather see a sermon than hear one any day. I’ve tried to live my life LIVING the Gospel, but that’s not an option on the Internet where words are all we have.
Love - Jesse. (Who needed a coffee and a break before successfully time traveling again.)
We’ve already established that people do, in fact, have shared hallucinations, episodes, or what have you. You may have experienced periods of intense, extreme bliss, but this is not god. It may have seemed very real to you, but it is not a universal phenomenom, and therefore, not god. Whatever it is that goes on inside your head is yours alone. It is not a governing force for the rest of us. Just you. Preaching it won’t change that. Praying won’t change it.
Regarding people who would rather “see” than “hear” a sermon, I couldn’t agree more. There is, however, another option (seeing as we didn’t come here LOOKING for a sermon). As has been said numerous times, we know where to go if we need a preacher.
That’s sound like a hint about your book but I won’t pry.
I understand that on the Christian forum certain things are accepted as Truth and shifting our language might be tricky. Oddly, because I have no specific religious affiliation and depending on the discussion, posters who don’t know me mistake me for either a Christian or a non believer. I realize opinion may not seem strong enough semantically when referring to a strong belief it’s still technically acceptable. Saying your opinion is irrelevant is technically incorrect. A point that I think matters in communicating with others. It’s also in keeping with recognizing your fallibility and that beliefs, even strong ones, are not the same as facts.
I understand the strength of spiritual experiences and how powerful they can be. My own experiences tell me that even those are interpreted through the filter of our own unique personality.
I sometimes compare it to the purest water coming through an impure filter, or a bright white light shining through a shade. Both the water and the light are affected and altered by what they pass through.
All good prayers. I try to stay focused on that inner search myself because I think my day to day interaction with people matters. I just meant that if you recognize your understanding of God is incomplete and you have more spiritual growing to do, along with all the rest of us, it’s not hard to understand that maybe your interpretation of the Bible is the same. Another good reason to present it as your belief rather than fact. I say all this because I think it’s important to build bridges of communication between people who think differently.
Me too. Irish on both sides. Begorra!
I think even if we’re not consciously aware of them we all have preferences and are influenced and moved by them. But that’s just my opinion.
okay, but don’t forget to have Mr Peabody set the way back machine to Dec 2008
It seems like that passage is about how to spot a false prophet, but it doesn’t say anything about false spirits. From your previous post, I was under the impression that you knew of people who prayed and talked to God, but were really communicating with some kind of demon. Is that what you meant? If so, that passage doesn’t seem to be terribly relevant.
I’m sorry, Justin. I think the point I was trying to make was probably overwhelmed by the rest of the explanation.
You wanted to know how to test the spirits. My understanding of this is that you wish to be able to discern whether or not a spirit or perceived truth originates with God.
I’ll ask you to read these three verses again for they do indeed address your question.
1BELOVED, DO not put faith in every spirit, but prove (test) the spirits to discover whether they proceed from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world. (Those not sent by God ,but rather, by the adversary.)
2By this you may know (perceive and recognize) the Spirit of God: every spirit which acknowledges and confesses [the fact] that Jesus Christ (the Messiah) [actually] has become man and has come in the flesh is of God [has God for its source];
3And every spirit which does not acknowledge and confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh [but would annul, destroy, sever, disunite Him] is not of God [does not proceed from Him]. This [nonconfession] is the [spirit] of the antichrist, [of] which you heard that it was coming, and now it is already in the world.
You’ll never get a rebellious (demonic) spirit to confess Jesus Christ. Confront them with that and they quickly flee.
’Many religious followers are guilty of making arguments for God’s existence that only make sense if you already assume God’s existence. It seems here, that you’re denying the possibility that God could exist based on your belief (opinion) that God doesn’t exist. The flaw is the same you see.'
(I borrowed the above from another poster somewhere because I couldn’t have put it better.)
It wasn’t meant to be a hint but I’ll give you that one. The timeframe of the series covers forty years (and four generations), from the year 2000 to 2040. It’s not due for release until Sept. 2010 (because of all the proof-reading and time-consuming red tape that attends publication), and since we have a year-long, multimedia, global promotional tour beginning then, I’ll have to change my username on the net if I want continued anonymity, and I do.
Except it’s up to you to prove it exists if you want anyone to believe it. By your own admission, preaching doesn’t prove anything and the bible doesn’t prove anything. Do you believe all the godless people you encounter in your missionary activities find god because you said it exists?
I’m late to the party, but I think that the OP is largely wrong. Atheism is the lack of belief, which is what some posters have already said. I think the confusion is that atheists often have a plethora of beliefs (say, naturalism, buddhism, janism, etc). So atheism is conflated with those beliefs. It irks me when people assume it’s a worldview, since it’s not. Even if you consider it a belief, it’s still one belief - not a worldview.
You said this a while back, and I think this is just plain wrong. It’s evident that humans are pattern seeking creatures. We see patterns where there are none and we ascribe them to all manner of things (ghosts, gods, luck, etc). That doesn’t mean those things exist - we often only count the hits and exclude the misses.
Also, if you think there is an ‘unquestionable brainwashing of people against the supernatural’ how do you account for the fact that the majority of people believe in god, aliens, astrology, etc, etc? (check out Shermer’s book how we believe for cites).
Seems to go directly against your argument there.
I don’t think this is true either - speaking from personal experience. I went through almost a year of my ‘crisis period’ of praying everyday for my belief to come back. It didn’t happen. I’m curious, what’s your explanation for this? Would you assume that I was not honestly seeking or would you assume something else (if so, what)?
I’m curious how you can tell what is a true revelation from god versus a fake revelation from Satan? Do you go with a gut feeling? The reason I ask is because there have been many people who have been convinced that they have had a revelation. People who have gone on to murder their children, for instance.
The common retort is that those people didn’t understand god’s word, but if god’s word is only understandable in light of revelation, then you have to have some epistemic tool to determine which revelation is true. Don’t you?
Fear is a pretty useful tool. If you can get people to think horrible things will happen to them for not doing things your way, they’ll do things your way. Those who are not well versed in science are much easier to convince that all sorts of natural disasters will be directed at them if they do not obey.
Yeah but it was just that once. Turns out it wasn’t a revelation. I had just gotten some bad sacramental wine. My prison ministry is doing well though.
I seem to recall reading that Dalhmer found religion in Jail and that he blamed his evils on evolution. I could be mistaken, but that’s immediately what sprang to mind when you wrote that.
Me too. Irish on both sides. Begorra! 
