North Dakota Voter ID Law Bars Native Americans from Polls

So put just one DMV office in the whole state, too. There have already been cases where, after passing voter ID laws, states have closed down all of the DMVs in some counties. And guess which way those counties that now don’t have a DMV tend to vote?

How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don’t live in houses? Aren’t the houses on streets? Don’t the streets have names?

Honest question.

I have a feeling that if the Dems took away every DMV office in the state, it would not turn into the electoral windfall you imagine.

I assign addresses for the county government. Very often, while a person has an address, it’s can be pretty bogus. Especially if there is no Postal Delivery. It’s never checked, and nobody used to care.

Things are getting better now with the onslaught of GoogleMaps and many municipalities using GIS.

I am one of many that doesn’t get my mail delivered, IF my physical address is in the USPS master address list, I suspect it puts me in the wrong town (most of my online searches put me in a town about 12 miles away).

I don’t know if when registering to vote, your address gets validated. I mail in my ballot, and my POB is in a different county that I live in (not that unusual where I live). Yep, the county I VOTE in mails my ballot to a POB in a different county.

So if I live in a place where mail delivery is to the post office, not my residential address, that means my bank statement and utility bill and other documents are going to bear the post office box address as well. For example, this article quotes a North Dakota local official as saying street addresses have been assigned in 99% percent of his county “in the past several years,” which implies that until quite recently many residences didn’t have such addresses. If I’ve had your bank account and other paperwork established at one address, the post office box, for some period of time, what was my motivation to rush out and change it (particularly given that the post office might not actually deliver it to the street address anyway–they don’t everywhere)?

IANAL but I believe the rationale is that they need your address to ensure you vote in the proper local elections. I am a huge proponent of Voter ID especially as a voter ID law would have prevented from someone else voting under my name in one election BUT this case is not what Voter ID laws should do. They should merely be a means to ascertain that you are who you claim to be. That’s it.

Because Dems don’t care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can’t poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc.
In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida.

Right, because Democratic voters (the ones in the cities) wouldn’t stand for something that corrupt, even if it did benefit them.


You mean, when they argued that the same deadline for mailing absentee ballots applied equally to everyone?

When I was a kid growing up, we lived for awhile at “Route 2, Box 86” on the outskirts of a small town. The house was on an unnamed gravel road branching off off another road (that did have a name), but the houses on that larger road did not have street addresses assigned–you lived on Jordan Road, but your mail was addressed to Route 2, Box 63 (or whatever), and if you needed the sheriff or fire department, you lived in the third house west of the creek with the big live oak tree. Meanwhile, the county land records merely had that you lived in the northwest quarter of section 16, township 6 south, range 12 west of the 6th principal meridian (made-up numbers because I don’t remember the real ones anymore).

This was in the 1980s, so not truly ancient history. With the advent of e911 systems, and particularly after 9/11 and the various federal funding initiatives since, there has been a real push to assign proper street addresses; my childhood home finally was assigned a street address in about 2005 or 6. Various newspaper articles and court filings say a similar process has been happening on the reservations in North Dakota; over the past several years, they’ve finally gotten around to assigning proper street addresses to a lot of homes that never had them before. However, the residents of those homes may not actually know what the address is (because mail delivery is still to the Route and Box, or indeed just to the post office box you’ve always used), and even the county emergency coordinators admit they might have missed a few places on the remote and sprawling reservations.

You do realize, of course, that convicted felons are legally allowed to vote in many states (heck, in two states prison inmates can cast ballots), and only in 1996 did federal law bar non-citizens from voting in federal elections; a few municipalities still allow non-citizens to vote in local elections.

Yes, the modern Democratic Party does believe in a wide franchise, and that a nation is stronger when as many as possible of the people affected by a government’s actions have a hand in choosing that government. Meanwhile, the Republican Party seems to be hearkening back to the old idea of a more exclusive electorate, when only “deserving” people (meaning, people with money and status) get to vote. If you are a U.S. citizen but live in an area where the nearest DMV office is 60 miles away (which is apparently the mean distance to the DMV office on the Standing Rock Reservation), well, you better be wealthy enough to afford good transportation to that office if you want to vote.

Oh, really? I guess SCOTUSblog is ‘fake news’, huh?

So you would agree that military ids should not be an acceptable form of voter id?
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What if it’s a large reservation that happens to include parts of more than one district? If I have a PO Box in district #3, but reside a few blocks away in district #4,
should I be able to vote for candidates in district #3?

Any of which must show the “Current North Dakota Residential Address” in order to be valid. And to reiterate, the problem is that these places don’t have normal residential street addresses, or even a rural route number. The mail isn’t delivered to their homes, but rather to P.O. boxes.

From what Ditka has copied from the law, it looks as if the requirements are the same for the ID for provisional voting as they are for regular voting. Lot of good that does.

OK, but how do these people vote? Sounds like your answer is “they can’t; sucks to be them.”

How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box?

Keep thinking sweet thoughts. But your ‘I think’ or ‘I don’t think’ means nothing.

So, does ND have a problem with out-of-state people getting PO boxes and using those PO boxes to get ND IDs, then driving back to ND on Election Day to vote?

Sounds like a way of ‘fixing’ a nonexistent problem by throwing obstacles in the way of voting that primarily affect people who vote for the party that didn’t control the state government at the time the law was passed.

This seems to have happened in a shitload of GOP-controlled states now, but as best as I can tell, it’s not happened in a single Dem-controlled state. Quite a coincidence there, Counselor.

I don’t know, but have there been any reports that this has been a big problem in the past?

No, I didn’t mean it was a problem. I just mean really, how does one know where to vote and what candidates they are supposed to be voting for? I’m in Maryland, and while I don’t know for sure, I assume they tell me my voting place and list of candidates based on my address. Just wondering how it works in N.D.

Boy howdy, it’s easy to make stuff up and say it like it was fact.

You mean the ballots that had no postmarks, and should have been tossed out according to Florida election law because nobody could tell if they were cast on Election Day, or a day or two later?

Hey, I’m good with that, as long as we open up that day-after deal to anyone, in any close election. We shoulda done that in 2016, amirite? Give people in WI and PA and MI a second chance to cast their ballot, once they knew how crucial it was?

Probably — and this is not only applied to reservations but to many rural communities. There are parts of the US where people just did not traditionally have an address of the form “(Road Name/Number), (House Number)” on a fixed baseline grid.

In drawing up the election districts, precincts and wards, the states will make the division discrete only to the Census Tract level, rather than to the house-by-house level if they don’t have to. So they refer to THAT map where generally any clustered community will be one tract.

If it’s a small reservation, its tracts may add up to a self-contained single ward anyway.

In a larger reservation or just a larger rural area you may have an issue if Mr. Voter lives in a cabin on a hill exactly three miles from the closest neighbor in each direction and the last mile is by mule trail, but somewhere the local authority has a map saying what tract amd ward he’s in.

If the various authorities have their act together, in such communities the local authorities will sit with the postmaster and draw up a distribution, by which for instance, residents in tract 1 will be on postal route 11, boxes numbered 10***, tract 2 will be on postal route 11, Boxes numbered 20***, tract 3 will be postal route 11, Boxes 30*** and so forth, and the elections apportionment people will use that to define who is in what district.

Damned if I know. So long as somebody had it figured out, I’ll confess that’s the end of my curiosity.

You’re a Maryland manson, then? :wink: