North Korea has nukes. When do we go to war?

[Urban_Ranger]

NK doesn’t have any nuclear weapons.

[Neurotik]

:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack:

Yes, you are right. I completely misread the entire article and for some reason thought active nuclear program = having completed nuclear weapons. I take back both of my previous posts in this thread.

:smack: :smack: :smack:

[minty_green]

Exactly. They have a program. So do a lot of other countries. That does not mean they have [w]nuc-yu-ler[/w] weapons, nor that they are going to acquire them in the near future.

[december]

*Originally posted by Urban Ranger *
**NK doesn’t have any nuclear weapons. **

Or, at least, it’s not clear that they do. From today’s NY Times

The next day the North Koreans acknowledged the nuclear program and according to one American official said they, “have more powerful things as well.” American officials have interpreted that comment as an acknowledgment that North Korea possesses other weapons of mass destruction.

Administration officials refused to say tonight whether the North Koreans had acknowledged successfully producing a nuclear weapon from the project, which uses highly enriched uranium. Nor would administration officials who briefed reporters say whether they think North Korea has produced such a weapon.

“We’re not certain that it’s been weaponized yet,” said another official, noting that North Korea has conducted no nuclear testing, which the United States could easily detect.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/17/international/asia/17KORE.html

[Squink]

december claims: the prior administration’s ineffective policy was to bribe…

I’d use the term “engage” rather than bribe. Bush on the other hand has done everything in his power to screw up rapprochement. So now we find ourselves confronted with some ugly facts that we already knew, and have thus limited everyone’s options for getting out of the situation without massive bloodshed. Has “poke em until we know for sure” ever turned out to be the basis for sound foreign policy ?

[december]

*Originally posted by Squink *
** So now we find ourselves confronted with some ugly facts that we already knew, and have thus limited everyone’s options for getting out of the situation without massive bloodshed. Has “poke em until we know for sure” ever turned out to be the basis for sound foreign policy? **

This is a valid point of view, though I don’t agree with it. I’d rather face facts, even unpleasant ones – particularly when a country is building WMDs.

I’m not sure that engagement has been accomplishing that much. However, letting the cat out of the bag needn’t stop the process.

minty green, it’s true that having a nuclear program doesn’t absolutely prove that it will succeed. OTOH anyone planning foreign policy needs to assume that it probably will succeed sooner or later.

[minty_green]

So what?

[Patty_O_Furniture]

NK doesn’t have any nuclear weapons.

Innocent question: What is the goal of a “nuclear program”?

[elucidator]

Quien es el mas psycho? Kim Jong-Il o Saddam bin Laden

[Latro]

*Originally posted by elucidator *
**Quien es el mas psycho? Kim Jong-Il o Saddam bin Laden **

Credo que Arbusto es el mas psycho…

[Latro]

Creo ?

[Neurotik]

Creo.

Pero, quien es Arbusto?

[Shodan]

It was his father, after all, that arranged for Reagan’s October surprise, and that was a far more ambitious operation. In that case he did quite a bit more than just maniuplate the timing of an announcement, he actually convinced the Iranians to keep the hostages and release them on the day of Reagan’s innaguration.

Cite?

[obligatory partisan post] Oh goodie, another Clinton mess to clean up. Have we figured out a way to blame Bush for it yet? [/obligatory partisan post]

Regards,
Shodan

[ZooMetropolis]

arbusto = bush

[Neurotik]

That’s what I thought, but I wasn’t sure if he was translating Bush or if that was actually the name of someone that I hadn’t heard of.

I mean, technically, he should have written “Creo que Bush es el mas psycho” because you aren’t supposed to translate people’s names. Except psycho isn’t Spanish, so I just don’t know what’s going on.

Basically, the whole thing is a mess, starting with elucidator.

[december]

This report from the UK Telegraph says NK does have nukes:

North Korea 'has two nuclear bombs’
By David Rennie in Washington
(Filed: 18/10/2002)

North Korea possesses two plutonium-based nuclear bombs, a senior Bush administration official said yesterday. It was the first official confirmation that a member of President Bush’s “Axis of Evil” has obtained nuclear weapons.

“It is our assessment that North Korea has reprocessed before 1994 sufficient plutonium for one or two nuclear weapons,” the official said, asking to remain anonymous. When pressed he said North Korea had two bombs.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/10/18/wkor18.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/10/18/ixport.html

[Rossarian]

Originally posted by december *
** “It is our assessment that North Korea has reprocessed before 1994 sufficient plutonium for one or two nuclear weapons,” the official said, asking to remain anonymous. When pressed he said North Korea had two bombs.*

Eh… maybe. The only thing being reported with any certainty is that they have enough material for two nuclear bombs. Anonymous Guy might have said they have them, but there is a big gap between stockpiling plutonium and having a usable weapon. In between the rather large step of figuring out how to make a bomb and then weaponizing for a delivery system is the rather crucial step of testing. And we would know if North Korea had tested a nuclear weapon. Their likely cooperation with Pakistan on ballistic missile technology does provide a fairly plausible case for both the testing opportunity and the weaponization process, but that’s just pure speculation on my part.

Two nuclear weapons would be a definite concern, but not terribly much more than an already known threat, North Korea’s stockpile of chemical weapons.

North Korea’s Chemical Weapons Program

Their first attempt at nukes is not likely to lead to large yield weapons, so the casualties might be similar to a large chemical weapons attack. The persisten effects are a bit worse though…

[antechinus]

Perhaps North Korea admitted that they have a nuclear weapons program because they know the US cant fight both Iraq and NK.

This was done intentionally to expose Bush’s lie AND reduce the chance of the US invading Iraq.

Bush created the axis of evil by naming it - maybe now it really is an axis.

Here is a good read (beware pdf) http://www.csis.org/burke/proliferation_axis.pdf

[december]

South Korean newspapers report there was a NK nuclear test a few months ago.

South Koreans in a subway car read newspapers reporting North Korea (news - web sites)'s nuclear test, in Seoul, South Korea (news - web sites), Friday, Oct. 18, 2002. The headline reads: ‘North Korea did nuclear test between July and August in this year.’

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/021018/168/2gup3.html

[elucidator]

Sorry for the confusion. Quien es… is a Sat Night Live Bill Murray bit where he’s a Spanish language game show host for Quien es el mas macho?, where contestants guess which of two movies starts is the most studlike. Now that I’ve explained it I feel sorry for the poor thing.

Anway…who is the most psycho? Kim Jong-Il or Saddam bin Laden? BANG!. Wrong! It was the other guy!