Northwestern Mutual, you suck

I have yet to encounter an insurance company that wasn’t sleazy. Northwestern Mutual, with whom I have recently had the displeasure to deal, has reaffirmed this view.

The story is pretty simple. My mother recently died, leaving a $65,000 insurance policy to my son, who is 15. At first, all seemed well - I called NM, they noted that the beneficiary is a minor, and promised to send me the paperwork needed for us to put the funds into an account that he can access at 18. My husband talked to our financial advisor, who set up an account to receive the money and hold it for my son until he is of age.

Hubby dutifully filled out the NM forms, including giving the account information for the newly established account, and sent the forms back to NM.

Do you think Northwestern Mutual then sent the funds to my son’s account? No, of course not!

Instead, they told us that we had to go to a US state court and get a legal ruling proving that my husband and I are the guardians of our son. (Mind you, he’s the biological son of us both, both our names are listed on his birth certificate, he resides in the same house with both of us, we pay all his bills, etc. etc. - all things we could submit paperwork to prove, if necessary.)

Pressed to explain why we had to find a court to declare us, the parents he has spent his entire life with, as his actual guardians, NM insisted that “it’s the law” but despite repeated requests (and I promise you, we were nice about it), they never were able to find this mystery law.

Setting aside the time and effort associated with going to court for this, we don’t live in the US (we are US citizens, but residents of Indonesia), and have no standing in any US state court. However, NM will not accept a notarized affidavit from our US embassy stating that we are our son’s legal guardians. According to NM, there is no alternative to papers from a state court in the US.

NM went so far as to insinuate, in writing, that they have checked Indonesia’s laws and that the same rules would apply. (Sure you did, folks. I’m sure you have several staff members fluent in Indonesian and capable of doing legal research on Indonesian laws.)

Meanwhile, our financial advisor expressed amazement. He has set up similar accounts for his own children twice, and in neither case was he asked to provide guardianship paperwork.

Of course, there is an easy solution to this problem: NM will keep the money for our son until he turns 18, or so they say. They just will not let us set up an account for him that is in the same place as the rest of our money.

Fine, whatever. I’d like to fight them on this, but it’s just not worth it. They know that, of course, which is why they are perfectly content to stonewall us with regard to the law they insist exists but cannot provide to us.

So, admitting defeat, last night my husband called to ask them about how to fill out the forms a second time, but this time directing NM to keep the money for my son. (Apparently, something on the form about how to do this was unclear, and he wanted to know which box to check.)

Guess what? Now that the money will stay with NM, all obstacles have miraculously vanished. We don’t even need to re-send the forms. They were willing to accept a verbal direction over the phone from my husband, despite the fact that the only written forms they have from him explicitly state something different than what we are now asking them to do.

Nice going, NM! I sure believe that you guys are trustworthy now. It’s about 2 years and 6 months until my son turns 18. We’ll have that money out of your hands immediately, as fast as we can get the paperwork filled out and overcome whatever stupid obstacles you figure out to put in our son’s way then.

I know this isn’t much of a story, but I feel better having added just one little contribution to the internet explaining what scum insurance companies are. Scum. Assholes. Villains. Liars. Eeeevvvviiilllll.

And what written assurances do you have that NM will pay out upon your son’s 18th?

Sounds flaky to me, unless I saw it in writing from them. And I’m willing to bet there will be a bigger and worse fight in the future if “verbal directive” is all you’ve got. Verbal agreements aren’t worth shit in any court, anywhere, anytime.

2.5 years is enough time for all involved parties to forget the verbal agreement, for the person with whom it is made to be fired, for their policies to change, or for the TRUE policy of unclaimed money to take effect wherein they don’t have to pay out.

Insurance companies are perfectly predictable. They will fight tooth and nail, sometimes illegally, to avoid paying out any money.

I agree with Uber, if you leave it at this point, your son will never see a dime.

Call the Dept. of Insurance in the home state of Northwestern Mutual and in the state where the policy was sold and file a formal complaint.

I hope you meant he’ll have it out of their hands then. It’s not your money, and the only right you have to it is to hold it in trust for your son. If the insurance company has any doubts about that (and your post suggests strongly that you think it’s yours), they are right to hold it until he’s 18.

Oh please.

I’m sure by saying “we’ll” she clearly meant that they intend on purchasing a new yacht or something once he turns 18.

:rolleyes:

So…can’t set up a trust account for your kid in the state where the policy was issued? Barring some Dept of Homeland Security BS it should be easy enough to do from abroad. Might cost you a few hundred bucks for a family lawyer to do it but it might also save you a lot of stress.

This. They may actually be in perfect alignment with the laws and regulations governing the contract and the state in which it was issued so if you don’t love it you can shove it. BUT you are owed a competent explanation including book chapter and verse citation of the applicable law. Indonesian law is moot in this circumstance because the contract wasn’t written there.

And get the agreement from the insurance company in writing or it didn’t happen.

Any time I’ve heard of a life insurance company “holding onto the money for you” it involves them paying you some kind of ridiculous high savings account interest rate (7%?). Any words on that, or are they holding your son’s money without paying interest?

Actually, I’d be more worried about the opposite, an administrative charge that will eat into the money.

Nah, that particular evil act is purely a bank thing. The goblins are very protective of that right and will not suffer the practice to exist in insurance industry.

What they said - get in writing the insurance they are going to pay your son, the lack of any service charges, AND file written complaints with everyone imaginable. For the price of a few stamps you reinforce your son’s position sould NM be jerks in the future, AND you potetially cause them a bit of hassle in return.

Please tell me you had a lawyer go over any forms before your husband filled them out, and that you kept a copy.

Indeed. My husband is an attorney, fortunately.

For Steophan, who may be the only person in this thread who seems to think I want to steal my son’s money:

I do think that it is entirely believable that there is a law regarding proof of guardianship. I don’t even have a problem with it - in this era of nasty divorces, I can believe an unscrupulous parent might sleazily try to get the money inappropriately. So if there is a law, there’s a law. That’s not my objection. My objections are:

  1. They said nothing until the forms were already submitted about this law.
  2. When asked for the law, they couldn’t provide it
  3. They would not accept a notarized affidavit from the US Embassy that we are the guardians of my son.
  4. Their mysterious insistence on us proving that we are our son’s guardians vanished as soon as my husband said they could keep the money for our son.

To all who say I need to get something in writing from NM, thank you. I think that’s very sound advice.

This.

I also agree with Uber - this is ringing all kinds of alarm bells for me, and I wouldn’t rest until the money was in an account under my son’s name, not with the lying, scamming insurance company.

NWM is one of the most highly regarded life insurance companies as well as one of the most financially stable companies in the world. I am pretty confident they would hold that $65K in an interest bearing account for your son.

Yes. But they’re getting worse. If you have disability insurance with them, you’re much more likely to get treated poorly than you would have 10 years ago. I agree that the $65k is probably safe, and you’ll get monthly (or quarterly) statements showing it’s sitting in an account earning interest.

Are you as confident that it is their money to hold?

They quite possibly suck sweaty monkey balls (I’ve never dealt with them), but that doesn’t change the fact that they have my favorite corporate theme music.

Without the forms they require to release it, yes. The forms may be an incredible hassle, but each and every legal form is because somebody, at some point, tried to get away with something illegal.

We filled out and returned the forms they asked for. Only after they read those forms and noticed that we were going to move the funds to a new location did they suddenly remember this “law” that they are sure exists, but can’t seem to actually find and quote to us.

Truly, I have no problem with a requirement that we somehow establish some legitimacy. In fact I’ve been a bit startled at how easy one or two processes are (or at least they seem to be - nothing’s done yet so maybe glitches will arise later) to move other pieces of my mother’s estate directly to me. (Don’t worry Steophan - my mother wanted me to have them. I’m not stealing my son’s stuff again.)

The problem is not that NW has a legitimate request and I’m being an asshole by refusing to cooperate. The problem is that NW is citing a mystery law and refusing to work with me on a reasonable solution. Believe me, it’s a BIG hassle for me to get a notarized statement from the US embassy - it costs me $50 and a half day of my time. But I’d be willing to do it.

What exactly do you think I’m supposed to do here, Heropsychodreamer? Move to the US, leaving behind my job and my entire life, just so I can have standing in a US court? Please do tell me what solution you propose.

I’m sure you’re not trying to steal your son’s money, but the laws and regulations exist to protect both the children of less scrupulous parents and the insurance companies, who would be liable if they gave the money to people who aren’t entitled to it.

I have no idea what your problem is with them keeping the money until he’s 18, rather than a different financial institution doing so. But hey, if it makes you happy to assume they’re trying to steal his money, and that any questions about what you’re doing are accusations, go for it.