I don’t understand why any woman would voluntarily go to a country under sharia law. Those laws are reprehensible but they are the law. You should not even bother accusing someone of rape unless there happened to be four male bystanders just watching, which basically means your vagina is going to be up for grabs for anyone who feels like taking it. Don’t fucking go there, it’s the only solution.
The UAE will change eventually. Dubai is already considered a cosmopolitanism city. But the UAE still has to be mindful of the hard line clerics. Change too fast and the UAE risks another cleric takeover like the one that occurred in Iran.
I’d have no concerns at all about traveling to Dubai for business meetings or a convention. Be polite, respectful, avoid alcohol. and of course any sexual relationships. I “think” a quiet dinner with mutual friends (male and female) would be fine. Meeting in groups at computer conventions is something I enjoy anyway. I’ve made important professional contacts that way.
Me too. These laws are utterly disgusting. Why would any sane woman go to a Muslim country like this one voluntarily?
Just because you don’t want to debate your allegations doesn’t mean the rest of us are going to accept them.
You keep claiming that the woman was drinking alcohol. But you’ve provided no evidence to support this.
You keep claiming the woman invited the man into her room. But you’ve provided no evidence to support this.
Your evidence seems to be nothing more than you imagine it happened that way. And you apparent belief that if she was convicted of some crimes, she must have been guilty - even as you supposedly acknowledge the court system that convicted her is rigged.
Here’s another possibility. Maybe Dalelv didn’t break any law. Maybe she didn’t drink any alcohol or invite any men into her room. But maybe local men, knowing their legal system wouldn’t care, are targeting foreign women for rape.
She had a blood alcohol test (huffington, not a great source but its a source). How much more evidence do you need? A Sharia law court still looks at evidence. They were convicted. There was evidence of some kind.
I find it incredible you’re entire argument is based on a usa today article. The BBC is one of the most respected news organizations in the world. They reported that these people went out on the town. They reported both were convicted of alcohol use and extra-marital sex. I didn’t make anything up.
I find myself in a strange position even remotely defending the UAE. But at least they convicted both people and gave similar sentences. Saudi courts would have probably given the woman 10 years and lashes. The guy would have paid a fine. imho The UAE is one of the more progressive Muslim countries. Thats not saying much, but its better than Iran or Saudi Arabia.
Just to clarify: the guy got 13 months and the woman 16 (BBC). I assume the extra three months were for the perjury charge.
The situation sucks. But thats a Sharia court decision. It’s still a heck of a lot more lenient than Saudi Arabia. Try 10 lashes and ten years. (just a guess based on other news).
A woman was sentenced to 10 lashes for driving a car in Saudi Arabia. Later overturned by the King.
Muslim countries don’t mess around. Read the travel advisories please! Follow the rules or stay home.
If you read that Huffington piece just a tiny bit more closely, you’d see this:
So no, drinking alcohol is not against the law there. A Google search would’ve confirmed the same; it’s easy to find cites about which restaurants in Dubai sell alcohol. She didn’t break the law if she had some drinks, and you can now stop repeating this ridiculousness about how she broke the law and should’ve been more respectful. And to remind you again of the “equitable” sentence, she said she was raped and they were both sentenced to prison for having drinking and sex, AND she got an additional sentence for being unable to prove the rape allegation because it didn’t happen in front of the judge. There’s nothing fair about giving an alleged criminal and his victim the same prison sentence. The good news is that she’s not in prison and I doubt she ever will be.
I would not go there unless I could arrange for four male friends/family to travel there with me and accompany me everywhere. Seriously.
My interpretation is they tolerate some alcohol use in the Westernized hotels. Just like the police don’t kick in hotel doors to catch people in extra marital sex. Dubai values international trade and tourism. But they also have a conservative Muslim element within their population to appease.
But if you involve the police. Fail a blood alcohol test and admit sex (even if it’s rape) then the Sharia courts take over.
I’m trying to explain the situation the best I can. I’m not defending it. Of course this rape would be prosecuted in any Western country.
Your impression is wrong. Why not find out the truth instead of speculating? If you’re a non-Muslim, you can drink legally in Dubai as long as the club is allowed to sell alcohol. It’s not tolerated with a wink and a nod, it’s legal and regulated.
No, I didn’t read just a USA Today article. I read over a dozen articles on this incident. None of them - including the BBC article you cited - says Dalelv drank any alcohol and none of them say she invited the man into her room.
The BBC article says “she had been on a night out with colleagues” - no mention of drinking or any other illegal activity.
As for the alcohol test, there’s no mention of a positive result. You’re just assuming the result must have been positive based on the fact that she was convicted. Just as you’re apparently assuming she must have been guilty of extramarital sex and perjury based on her convictions for those crimes.
My point is that a false conviction - and there’s an ongoing history of the UAE giving out false convictions like these - doesn’t prove the crime occurred. While the rest of us are saying it’s wrong to falsely convict innocent people of a crime, you’re claiming that the innocent people should have just avoided that fate by not committing the crime.
And just so you know, this is in the Pit now.
Then why was the woman and man convicted of consuming alcohol? The man’s nationality isn’t reported but he probably was there for business travel.
We may loathe Sharia law and consider it unjust. But it’s still a court. The court follows laws and looks at evidence. A court that sentenced the man too.
It’s pretty detestable I suppose, but chalk me up to the “don’t fucking go there, it’s the only way” camp. It’s a stupid, terrible law, and I feel so bad for all the women who are born and raised in middle eastern countries where they are still little more than property.
But I can’t honestly muster up much sympathy for individuals who choose to travel to these places and then find themselves in legal hot water, now matter how terrible the underlying laws are. You have to be massively ignorant not to know about these sorts of things, and how sharia law works in general with regards to alcohol consumption, sex, etc.
I work in oil and gas, and if I ever had the “opportunity” to go work in the middle east in a country like UAE, I would quit and find another job or refuse to go on ethical grounds.
So yeah, can’t believe it but I guess I’m actually agreeing with the victim blamers here.
They were convicted of illegal alcohol consumption or public drunkenness, not just drinking. Several articles made this point. I am not sure what the basis for that conviction was. It’s possible it’s because they were found outside of an area where drinking was allowed, although it sounds like they were in the hotel the whole time around this incident, so I am not sure how that could be. Maybe it’s because she was a non-Muslim foreigner who was admitting to sex and she was held to the strictest interpretation of the law possible because she went to the police.
This might be the most naive thing I have ever read. We’re talking about a court that just convicted a woman of perjury because she couldn’t produce four adult men who watched her get raped, and you’re insisting on their ability to review the evidence and apply the law impartially.
Well stated drewtwo99. I wish that I had stated it that succinctly last night.
We’re guests in a foreign country for only a few days. Read the travel advisories and take their advice.
I don’t understand why this woman would even bring up a rape charge, someone has to have informed her of the stupidly ridiculous burden of proof.
The news did say the hotel staff tried to warn the women not to call the police.
It kills me to say this. But her best decision was to pack up and go back home. It’s unjust and wrong on every moral level. She could have filed a complaint back in Norway. At least warn other women thinking of traveling to Dubai.
Just imagine the situation the local women are in. They don’t even have the option of leaving.
Do you think the travel advisories say “if you get raped, don’t bring charges?”
I doubt they did.
Actually that should be a travel advisory for Muslim countries. It’s a horrible and unjust dilemma. But sometimes you just have to run like hell from a dangerous situation. You can’t fight every battle. Especially in a foreign country that has little or no regard for women’s basic rights.
This is a good point. I can’t imagine how any woman would actually commit perjury and make a false rape accusation when there’s no chance of it being upheld and every chance the woman will be punished for it. The only way I can see a woman accusing somebody of rape in such a situation would be if she actually had been raped and was so angry that she was willing to face the consequences she would suffer by making the accusation.