Would being yelled at and accused of lying some more convince you that AA members could never possibly harass anyone?
see below.
Yups.
:dubious: Probably not. I really don’t give a rats ass because I am not an alcoholic, nor a drug addict [even though thanks to a seriously screwed up body I hork down a lot of pain meds. I have the imaging to demonstrate I live with a constant amount of physical damage and pain that warrant my pain management doc.] If a couple small minded petty idiots online want to defend some assholes at an AA meeting 25 years ago by making me out to be the bad guy in the whole situation they can sit and spin for all I care. If someone asks polite questions I will respond politely. I was there, I know what happened, they were not there and don’t know what happened. Simple as that.
Post #73 and aruvqan mentions that it was an open meeting, which makes a big difference…although I still don’t get it. Not even alkies are made to talk to the group; we do it when we’re ready whether that’s the tenth meeting, the hundredth, or never. So I don’t know what was going on there.
The OP hasn’t come back but maybe she’s reading her thread. AA’s only requirement is a desire to stop drinking, or it’s been court ordered. She let them know she only wants to keep it in check so maybe they felt like she wasn’t ready. Most people don’t put themselves through AA (:p) unless and until they hit bottom. That could be because their health is failing. Or because they’ve started showing their ass at bridge. Or for some it’s bankruptcy, divorce, and child support…so, it differs.
One person got a DUI on the way to the meeting. When they got out they were welcomed back because they wanted to stop drinking. They just couldn’t yet.
Well that wasn’t too bright.
Aren’t you not even supposed to go while you’re actually drunk? If too many people did that a party might break out or something.
Most drunks aren’t known for thinking things through very well. Her heart was in the right place, her butt just needed to be in the passenger’s seat.
The very few people I saw who were stumbling drunk were led outside to share some coffee with whoever had chosen to help them, so they wouldn’t disrupt the meeting. People in a party mood don’t show up. They’re too busy having all that fun they’re going to be told about the next day.
As they say, if you haven’t met an asshole in AA, you haven’t been to enough meetings.
I’ve seen people corner a new member who refused to admit his problem, and I’m sure that isn’t the only time it happened in history.
It does seems strange that aruvqan’s friend didn’t speak up, but whatever.
Ben had issues with complete subscriptions and a free t-shirt. <shrug> I would imagine that was why he drank. I know his mother was a real piece of entitlement whore work. What more could he say past agreeing that I was just the designated driver helping him out?
lol TokyoBayer. Like they say, if you don’t know who the crazy one is on the bus… <—points at herself.
There are many opinions (as seen in this thread) as to the causes, definitions, and solutions to alcoholism. The group Alcoholics Anonymous has as one of its core tenets that an alcoholic may never, never ever safely drink again. They further believe that allowing someone to teach the group that they may try to drink responsibly may lead to false security and eventual alcoholic death of their members.
If you believe otherwise, that’s great but you just can’t be part of the group. It’s really as simple as that.
Wow. I can see what happened to aruvqan happening to me. If a friend asked me to drive them, I’d of course say yes, and figure I could sit quietly reading my Nook, or listening and gaining some insight and maybe compassion for what alcoholics face.
I certainly won’t make THAT mistake.
I see what you are saying here, but the way it is phrased kind of bugs me. Nobody is “teaching the group” anything in AA. There are no official leaders and every individual meeting is autonomous. You are supposed to follow certain traditions if you call yourself an AA group, but they are undertaken voluntarily by the group members. Nobody is doing any policing.
The only official AA stance on trying to drink responsibly is: Go right ahead. If you find it isn’t working for you, come back and try to stay sober with the rest of us.
Except when you’re forced to go, which happens alllllll the time.
I don’t care if people want to go to AA. That’s their thing. There are all kinds of support groups for all kinds of things. I do have a problem with the legal system and most people considering it the default option for anyone who might possibly have any type of drinking problem. (I don’t drive drunk or commit other crimes so it wouldn’t happen to me, just to be clear that it’s not personal to me. I’ve just seen it happen to a lot of people, some who are probably alcoholics and some who aren’t, and I think it’s bullshit. It certainly hasn’t helped any of the ones who could use some kind of help. If they’re going to be ordered to do something it should be evidenced-based.) Even for people who go by choice, I wouldn’t want them to think that AA is the only option and if it doesn’t work, nothing will.
Unfortunately, there aren’t very many evidence-based treatments, partly because its easier for the legal and medical communities take advantage of AA, which doesn’t cost them anything. It’s not good for the majority of people with alcohol issues and it’s certainly not good for AA.
I’m going to call BS on this.
From the 12 Traditions, meant to govern both open and closed meetings:
“The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.” (The “completely” is implied.)
Actually Hazelden, one of the largest, if not the largest, treatment networks in the nation has done tons of research. And they’ve been around since the fifties so they’ve had plenty of time to gather information.
This idea that people who are forced into treatment or AA don’t make successful recoveries is a very common myth. (Hazelden has figures on that also.) I know many young and middle-aged people whose first introduction to sobriety was court-ordered.
If you stop and think about it a moment you’ll realize that there really isn’t such a thing as voluntary recovery although a lot of people like to give themselves that credit. Virtually no alcoholic quits drinking until the consequences outweigh the rewards. So generally alcoholics quit quite reluctantly at first.
And being given an opportunity to examine your life, what’s working, what’s not working and the part you play in that isn’t exactly the worst punishment in the world. Some might consider it a gift. Even if it turns out you aren’t alcoholic.
I agree I said it inartfully, but there is certainly policing in AA. If I go to the meetings saying that I like to drink wine every night for dinner but that’s okay because I am in control of it and all of you other people are wrong, I certainly will be asked not to come back until I want to quit drinking.
“The only requirement for membership is that you must have a desire to quit drinking.” And they mean “entirely.”
That’s fine, but I hate the paternalistic bullshit. If I get convicted of a DUI, then the state can punish me. They can jail me or fine me. But don’t go all Big Brother on me and make me think a certain way.
What opportunity am I being “given”? I can go to an AA meeting with or without state intervention. I’m not being given a thing by being forced to go.
I agree about paternalism. Not sure it can be erased from our society, though. People always do best when they don’t have things forced upon them.
As I’ve said above, this scarcely applies to alcoholics. They need consequences.
Consequences will come in time without the help of a legal system. But if you happen to break a law you are opening yourself up to being forced to do things you don’t want to do.
What are you being offered? An opportunity to have some sober time to clearly evaluate your choices. It’s surprising how many alcoholics discover how much better their life goes without alcohol.
If it doesn’t, you can go back to your comfortable lifestyle as soon as your legal obligations are met.