I find this so stupid that I don’t know where to begin. We need to decriminalize many things but it seems we want father State involved and controlling everything in our lives.
Back in my day, the teachers just used to fail those kids who didn’t do homework…
I graduated with honors from an ivy league university. If not completing homework had been a felony in the jurisdiction where I grew up, my parents would probably still be in jail.
What exactly is the purpose of making a moral issue out of school?
If the purpose of education is to give people the skills they will need later on to get productive jobs, first off, if they don’t like the schoolwork that is supposed to prepare them for the jobs, they probably won’t like their jobs much either. And then, if you say that people aren’t supposed to like their jobs, but they need to make money, well, I’m not convinced that school really helps that much in getting a financially rewarding job. Sure, if you flunk elemantary school, your chances aren’t very good, but the fact that six months experience can help you more than a year or two of school is pretty neglected, to say the least, if that is really the case.
If, then, the purpose of education is to stimulate people’s interest in learning, like the idealistic dogma says, well, there is nothing that could help deter this more than making a moral issue out of doing the work. I wouldn’t be able to count the number of things in school that I would have enjoyed if I didn’t have to do it or else. I have learned on my own that some of these things are in fact enjoyable in a different context, but that is by no means obvious to most people going through the school system.
I realize that practically speaking, teachers do kind of have to use a carrot and stick method to have any effectiveness, but what I’m wondering is whether the long term consequences of that outweigh the short term benefits. I think that this is perpetuated by teachers, school administrators, and politicians who hear themselves lie so often that they start to believe that what they are saying - that you are a “bad person” if you don’t do your homework - is the truth. They don’t tell you this, of course, but you have to realize that that simply isn’t the case.
I would have to agree with Thomas Hanes in “The Rise and Fall of the American Teenager”, that school today exists primarily as a day care, keeping kids out of trouble until they turn thirty or so and start have jobs that are actually useful to the economy. There are vestiges of things that used to have more importance, but most of what is left in the school system is just ritual.
is that a yes or a no?
This is ridiculous. Suppose a parent looks at his kid’s assignment, decides the assignment is worthless, and tells his kid to go practice piano or play baseball instead?
Maybe schools have changed so much in the past few decades that parents don’t realize what goes on in school today, or maybe they’ve just forgotten… but I can think of dozens of assignments and exams in high school that were a complete waste of time. I completed less and less homework as I progressed through school, and my grades reflected that, but today I love my job and I’m earning more than anyone else I know from high school–because instead of spending time on homework, I did what I loved and gained experience that made me valuable to employers.
A lot of schoolwork is simply mindless busy work. The amount might vary in different areas, different schools, and different teachers, but it’s always there. It’s absurd to punish parents for seeing through the BS.
Well, maybe a deal can be worked out making it a felony for any teacher to assign more than 15 minutes of homework per night.
I guess the question is what are the legislators thinking and who voted for them
Well, first of all, the tickets aren’t for the kid not doing his homework–the tickets are for the kid not showing up at the after-school program which he was sentenced to after he didn’t do his homework.
it’s not a bad idea to hold parents more responsible for kids’ school behavior, but I think the idea of actual tickets (and fines) is kinda stupid. And I was interested to discover that contrary to my first guess, it’s apparently not a last-ditch solution by a desperate school district trying to combat falling test scores. NSMS is doing okay for a slightly crowded, overwhelmingly black and Hispanic middle school, and test scores are actually rising.
Um, that’s a “no”. Even though it might appear to be working, still IMO it’s a dumb idea. Find some other way to motivate people.
The “legislators” in question would be the Galena Park School Board. These folks, here.
http://www.galena-park.isd.tenet.edu/school.htm
Why do children never have any responsibility of their own?
I agree that parents should encourage their kids to do their homework but if they’re the ones that are penalized what does that teach the child? They can’t learn responsibility for their actions or future when they aren’t held accountable.
Why is it always someone elses fault? It seems like the theme of our society.
This subject strikes a note with my home situation. I married a wonderful woman who has a 14 yr old daughter, who absolutely refuses some days to go to school. She will lay in bed and roll over and refuse to acknowledge either her mother or I.
As a stepfather I refuse to get physical in any way with the young lady. Her mother is much smaller than the girl and could not forcibly make her do anything. We have contacted the school, related the problem. We will not make excuses for her! She is making the decision and will have to live with the outcome, but unfortunately I believe it is a matter of time before her mother or myself end up having to stand up in front of a judge.
I feel very helpless in this situation, but I do not feel guilty.
Just for the record, Mother adopted Her as a single parent, there is no father out there to help with the situation.Not doing your homework is actually a felony. Only there’s no arrest or trial. You just pay for it the rest of your life through reduced expectations.
Not so long ago a good income with no education wasn’t that hard to come by. You could always get a good job at the steel mill/auto plant/GE factory/etc. But those days are largely gone now.
Mr2001 wrote:
Yeah, kinda like real life. Try telling your boss that it’s busy work and you shouldn’t have to do it. Don’t be surprised if they agree and send you on down the road kicking tin cans and talking to yourself.
Doing what your job requires (and if you’re in school that’s your job) is how life is. Get used to it.
Apparently, children now belong to the State.
What do you do when students don’t learn?
This is one question that my school is struggling to answer. Our professional develpoment groups, or professional learning community, has put this question at the top of the list. Many times students that are not learning are pushed aside.
We have close to 25% of the student body failing one or more class. Too many of these students are failing two or more classes. We are working on some interventions that will reduce or even eliminate student failure. This is very difficult and on some level, controversial.
Our principal has asked the faculty to choose the kind of high school we want to be. The choices he presents are:
Charles Darwin High School - some students will fail. This is accepted and even expected.
Ponchas Pilate - I have done my part. I taught the stuff and I wash my hands of all responsibility. If the kids don’t learn, it’s their issue. I have done my job. I taught the material.
Henry Higgins - Failure is not an option. Students will learn. We insist that students take advantage of all resources that are available. Tutorials are not only offered, they are required.
One of our interventions is a Saturday School. Students are required to attend and the parents are required to participate. This program kicks in at the 15th week of the semester. I believe we have about half of the parents show up for this mandatory program.
We are working very hard to intervene and “force” kids to learn. I can see how the tickets mentioned could be considered as an option. I think it is a bad idea but I can see how a school may attempt to put this in place.
We have some “essential questions” that we are trying to answer. The one I already mentioned - “What do we do when students don’t learn?” Another - “What should students learn?” You may be shocked by the level of disagreement members of a particular department have with this question. The question of relevance is part of this. I see several comments in this thread concerning “busy work”. This is discussed by our faculty. What one teaches sees as busy work, another sees as essential.
I think many schools are failing. We are stuggling to find methods and stategies that will work. The tickets seem like a desperate attempt.
The problem I have is that homework tends to be one-size-fits-all. While homework might be appropriate and valuable for the average student. The very-good students will find it monotonous and boring and the very-bad ones will find it too hard for them to gain any useful knowledge.
If schools have so much work for children to do in order to learn, why not make the school day longer instead of giving them work to take home with them?
Our school day is 30 minutes longer than the state requirement. We have placed a tutorial with lunch. Students that have a 2.5 or higher can eat lunch, attend clubs, go to the library, sit and visit with friends, etc. Students that are below 2.5 are assigned two tutorials each week. If they don’t go to the tutorial, they lose privileges.
I would not favor extending the amount of time students are in school beyong this. I teach in a large city and we have kids that are at bus stops at 6:30 in the morning. With traffic or bad weather, bus rides to and from school can be more than an hour. I think this would make the day too long. In addition, I am sure some teachers would assign homework. I think students need to have some homework. It gives them an opportunity to seek knowledge independently. For the record, I think some teachers assign too much homework. Kids need math homework every single day. Other classes could stand to reduce the amount of homework given. YMMV
Another consideration would be teacher planning, grading, etc. My day is long enough and I often take work home. Many teachers take work home. A longer day would make our jobs even more demanding.
Heh. Houston. Grrreeeaaat.
At my school students who do not do a portion of their homework are given disciplinary action in the form of one Saturday Class (detention from 8-noon on a Saturday).
Shool hours are way too short. This was my day in school five and a half days a week (Sat pm off):
9:00am 1:30 pm 4hrs class with 30 min break
1:30 - 2:30 1 hr for lunch
2:30 - 3:30 1 hr playground time
3:30 - 5:30 2 hrs class
At that point you were free to go home with the understanding that you had a couple of hours of homework. Kids left home about 8 am and got back home about 6:30 pm which sounds reasonable to me. What is not reasonable is that kids get home much earlier than the parents and then waste their time at home until the parents arrive.
Those of us who boarded at the school at 5:30 had some playground time, then a couple of hours of class time to do our homework, then dinner, then about an hour of free time before bed time. Those who were punished would have to stay in class doing homework (or reading novels subreptitiously) instead of being in the playground.
It worked for me. I learnt a lot, I stayed out of trouble and finished high school with a good preparation for college.
But getting back to the OP. I just find getting the authorities involved incredibly stupid. It seems we are abdicating all responsibility on someone else’s shoulders.
I disagree with handing out tickets but I can appreciate the intention. You may be shocked by the lack of parental involvement in matters relating to school.
What soutions do you offer? If students continue to fail and parents don’t monitor progress or support the school in their attempts to help the student, what should be done? Should we just wash our hands of the situation and watch the kid fail?