Childless people, IMO, are freer to think of, and share concerns with, those different from themselves. They’re important voices - or ought to be - in politics, activism, and social causes, especially those affecting the discriminated or dispossessed.
Similarly, childless people are indispensable to philanthropy, local community betterment, the arts, and quality of life - for everyone, not just schools and suburbs. We really ought to encourage and foster them, not think of them as a social underclass.
Birds do it, bees do it, even monkeys in trees do it.
Reproduction does not make you more evolved. If reproduction is your biggest accomplishment in life, you need to re examine your goals, in my opinion.
If you feel pressure or short changed because you chose to or not to, have children, I think that’s on you. Get over it. Live as you believe, as suits you, and as life comes. That’s the only obligation anyone truly has.
And, by the way, everyone dies alone. You may have people in the room with you, but you’ll be dying alone, just like everyone else.
When our last surviving parent suffered a devastating stroke and was rendered fully bedridden, and in need of much care, it was us, the childless ones, who’s lives could withstand the amount of adaptation/time the caregiving would take. The other siblings all had families, kids in college etc. Without us, she’d have been in a care facility for those 6 yrs.
In many ways being childless puts you into a position to help your family, financially, with time available, short notice things, babysitting, etc.
I don’t disagree with any of that - except the bit about being special. Modesty forbids!
The point, though, is that children, and parents with children, are a slightly larger group in society than, say, vegans, new earth creationists, Truthers, etc. I can count on my fingers the numbers of folks I’ve actually met in these categories.
If you dislike children, and parents (because, as someone alleged upthread, parents always talk about their kids), most normal human social interactions become more problematic - one’s family is likely to contain children and parents; one’s co-workers, employees, bosses are likely to be parents with children; your classmates and professors may well be parents; public places swarm with families with children, etc. etc.
Certainly, it is possible to structure one’s life so as to avoid them whenever possible, but it would I think involve making a bunch of sacrifices, which (unless you are truly unlucky) you would not have to make if you say disapproved of Truthers. As someone upthread put it, post 199:
I think it is. I’m 31, and when people ask if my husband and I are going to have kids, and I say no, they usually just shrug and say ok. We live in a pretty liberal-leaning city, though, and tend to associate with people who are pretty open-minded about lifestyle choices. When I went home to a very rural area last spring for an elderly relative’s funeral, I tried to brush off the questions. The couple people who were asking in that situation were asking more along the lines of “when are you going to have kids” with a tone of “you’d better start soon 'cause you aren’t getting any younger” rather than just asking as a way to make conversation to get to know someone better, which is what I find in my every day life. So I’d say it depends on context, but in my area, it’s pretty accepted to say you’re choosing not to have children.
I might add that parents are also more likely to dislike the childless - either because of how a minority act (the ones who throw terms like moomie, duhdee, bratleigh and snotleigh around online), or because they distrust people whose social circumstances are at all different. You, the childless person, can like other people’s kids just fine, but they, the childed, know that whatever is at the center of your life is not at the center of theirs. That is a big hurdle to overcome for a lot of folks.
Nothing I say should be taken as a commentary on the ‘childless/childfree’, only one on those who, whether they have children or not, state that they dislike children.
I note that several posters have made a point of stating that lacking children frees them up for family duties, such as childcare - I presume these folks do not dislike children, because if they did, that would seem an intollerable burden.
I myself live in a city which is pretty liberal overall (Toronto) and I never noticed any discrimination against myself when I was childless, as I was until my late 30s, from any of my parent friends or others, so I presume that this dislike isn’t universal. At worst, I got some more-or-less subtle pestering from my own parents, who wanted grandkids badly. That didn’t factor into our decision much.
[In case in needs restating, I don’t think that the choice one way or another about having children says anything about one’s worth as a person - though I do think that, like any other major life experience, for some it can be rewarding and enriching to have children.]
I think things are very different for men. Not wanting children is considered a valid choice for men, but for a woman it means there’s something wrong with you.
I happen to like children very much, and simply dislike babies. Avoiding babies does not cramp my style much. My brother recently had a baby, but he was the first member of my family to have a baby since I was a baby (he’s almost 40; I’m 36). I imagine I will see the baby 2-3 times a year until such time as the baby becomes a much more interesting-to-me “child.” My sister in law is that rare creature who fully accepts that I am not interested in babies and does not push the baby at me. My cousin has children, but they were already 5 & 7 when he married their mom (they are awesome!). My other cousin was adopted.
I have friends with children, who I don’t see very often and live very far away, so I pretty much skipped over the baby stage and I like their children fine. None of the friends I see often, or live close to me, have children. Most of my hobbies are things where it is very inappropriate to bring a baby but children are welcome-- skiing, surfing, horseback riding, martial arts.
So I’m sure for some people it is very limiting, but not for me. I know more people who will openly say something like “mexicans should go back where they come from and stop stealing our jobs except that mexicans are sooo lazy and on welfare…” than babies.
Just because you dislike something, that doesn’t make enduring it for a while an intolerable burden. I’m presuming that people who took care of bedridden parents disliked having to wipe those parents’ butts. Lord knows I hated every second of wiping my niece’s butt when she was toilet training. Was it an intolerable burden? No, it was just one of those unpleasant things that needed to be done.
How sad. It appears that your view of kids are as something to be made clones of yourself. My kids weren’t trained in the “family business” unless you consider that being educated. I didn’t force my religion, or lack of it, on my kids, I taught them to think logically, so naturally they are atheists. Being from New York, I had no skills in training horses, but my younger loved them and now has quite impressive skills. If I cared to learn, she could train me. My older daughter is in a totally different field, one she was able to educate me on to the extent we’ve published papers together on the union of our two areas.
I suppose those who feel a bit inferior in the world would both want to stamp out duplicates of themselves and not understand why anyone without kids could be happy and fulfilled. I’m happy I had kids, but if we couldn’t my life would hardly be a waste.
I don’t know about you, but I don’t need mini-mes to make my life worthwhile, and I think we did a good job in not producing any. Two real people are much better.
I would not knowingly leave my kid with someone whom I knew disliked children generally and had the attitude that taking care of him was an unpleasant task, unless I had no other choice.
Taking care of children is (or should be) a much more involving job than simply wiping their butts; it involves considerable interaction with them. Kids are often highly sensitive to adult dislike, and if the adult dislikes them and views taking care of them as an unpleasant task, kids (other than I suppose absolute newborns) are very likely to sense that, and unlike adult parents, are not going to have the perspective to appreciate the sacrifice entailed.
With my cat Cuthbert, I figure if I leave him with someone it’s just a matter of time before they don’t like cats. Might as well start with someone who doesn’t like them who won’t be tempted to think he isn’t fifteen pounds of Grade A Evil.
Well, my point is that those who think as you do would not be stating that one of the advantages of being childless is their availability to do child-care.
Thus, presumably, those who proclaim that as an advantage do not dislike children - or alternatively, do not extend to children the same care that you would expect extended to your cat.
The scariest thing for me is the crapshoot. What will your child turn out to be like? If he’s like me, my SO, or my youngest brother, awesome! If my theoretical child is anything like my SO’s youngest sister or my younger brother, I would be utterly miserable. I also would have immense trouble parenting a child with autism, Down’s, etc.
I think successful, career-driven people and/or those who truly enjoy their spouse’s companionship and their free time with them have very valid reasons for not having or not knowing if they’ll have (if they’re under 40) children. At 23, I realize that if I choose to have kids I won’t be having them in the next ten years, but it seems as though all of my older friends are firmly in the “will have children” or - a few - in the “won’t have children” camp. Worse are the engaged or married couples who are on opposite sides of the fence. I’m lucky in that my future spouse says he’d love to have a child with me, but also that if I decide I’d rather it be the two of us, he’s over the moon with that as well. Time will tell, but I do enjoy reading people’s stories in this thread of their child-free lifestyles.
If you’re seriously wondering this, maybe you should ask around. There are many childless/child-free couples and individuals out there, nearly all of whom find life to be meaningful and worth living despite their lack of offspring.
Other than kids, what do we do to give our lives meaning? Here’s a few ideas.
Career. Or even just a job. Your efforts are valuable to someone; afterall, that’s why you’re getting paid. That can be meaningful in itself. Maybe you sweep the factory floor, keeping it clean so the machinists can do their jobs without tripping. Maybe you’re ambitious and talented enough to move up the ladder in your company to the point where you can effect big changes/improvements. Or maybe you go so far as to start your own business, providing needed goods or services to the public, and maybe even creating some jobs in the process.
Philanthropy. Work to alleviate the suffering of the homeless or the abused (I’m pretty sure Mother Teresa didn’t have any kids). Staff a suicide hotline, working to bring people back from the bring of despair and put them on the path to a better life.
Art. Take part in community theatre/music. Start your own garage band. Paint. Sculpt. Build furniture. Write poetry. Your artistic endeavors probably won’t get exhibited in a museum, but that doesn’t preclude them from being meaningful to you.
Education. Teach, tutor, or find some other way to help public schools do their thing. You need not have kids of your own to help shape the next generation.
Travel/self-edification. Get out in the world, explore it, see it first-person, grok other cultures/landscapes/ecosystems. Share that knowledge with your friends/community.
There are many, many ways to find meaning/passion. A person who sees reproduction as the only possible source of meaning in their lives has a very narrow view of reality indeed.
That’s why you have to be tough and careful and not fall into the trap of always being available. Just because I’m available to do something doesn’t mean I want to do it.
We don’t find it much of a sacrifice at all to avoid parents and children. We go to family functions where there are kids a couple of times a year (like this weekend with Thanksgiving dinner) and tolerate the kids for that time, but we don’t seek them out. I do regret friends lost to childbearing; they have a kid and disappear from my life. My sister that I socialize with the most is trying to have a kid; I’m going to miss her, too, when she disappears down the Mommy Hole.
This is absolutely true. My childfree by choice social group has had restaurant reservations refused in the past when they found out that we were a childfree by choice group. I have a different sister who gave birth to an utter brat - her bitterness at me for not living the same life she was living was almost palpable at times (and no, I don’t lord it over parents in real life).
I don’t get it. You claim that disliking children and parents doesn’t require you to sacrifice much - but in the same post, state that it is inevitable that your favourite sister will be alienated from your life by having a kid, and that you have lost friends to childbearing.
There is cognitive dissonance at work here. I would have thought that an issue that lost me my friends and alienated me from my favorite siblings is one that caused major sacrifices indeed.
There is a certain type of mumsy who cannot discuss anything but the contents of Junior’s shit. When such a person no longer reaches out their childless friends, I posit it is not the fault of the childless individual. They have become indescribably boring and tiresome. because they literally have no other topic of conversation.
More often though, parents simply have no time for socializing when their children are young. This is the “Mommy Hole” - your friends drop into a hole and re-emerge when their child gets his/her driver’s license. They socialize virtually only with parents, because socializing with people you know through your children is convenient and the least work.
Not everyone falls into the Mommy Hole. But a lot of people do, and a lot of it is to do with parents stretched too thin keeping their lives in order; they only have so much energy to go around and no one’s to blame, but certainly not the non-parent of the friend-team.
Wow, that’s insane. How was it presented to you guys by the staff, and how did they find out who you were? I would have thought a childfree group would be more welcome in a restaurant than a kid, who eats a cheap $5 meal and makes a bigger mess than the adult who orders a $15 meal and possibly a 5 drink. In my eyes, at least, childfree means more all around.
