I really should know this because I am a Florida Notary, but due to an inheritance issue, my 6 year old daughter needs to sign and have a form notarized.
Now, by law, I can’t notarize her signature. But if I take her to anyone else, they will require proof of identification. But, being 6 years old, she doesn’t have any.
Is there any way around this catch 22? Perhaps I could sign for her since she is a minor?
Wouldn’t a birth certificate be good enough?
How can a six year old’s signature possibly be legally meaningful?
I don’t know. I could prove that Bill and Jane Smith (and verify our IDs) had a daughter who is now 6 years old who is named Jill Smith, but that wouldn’t prove the child’s identity who is standing there. Sure, she looks about six years old and looks like me, but maybe our child died at age one and we kidnapped this child trying to make her our own?
The crazy part, though, is that she is in the process of being issued a passport with our signatures and a birth certificate.
You could set up a guardianship for her, and then the guardian could sign and otherwise act on her behalf. This is fairly common when a child receives substantial property from inheritance or lawsuit proceeds in my state. Bond and annual accounting may be required, and the Court may also require any funds be deposited into a special guardianship account, where they can only be removed with permission of the Court. Dunno if Florida does things similarly…
She was named in a will (left a necklace of some sort) and I was just told by the executrix that she needs every signature of every person mentioned in the will in order to close the estate.
I agree with you, though. I would think that her signature means nothing. Surely she can’t enter into any type of enforceable contract.
I think the executrix must be mistaken. Ask a lawyer. You can probably sign on the kid’s behalf. What would you do if she was an infant?
These are my thoughts too. In my jurisdiction (which is not Florida), the child’s guardian would sign on behalf of the child–the child would never sign, as the child has not yet reached the age of majority. An affidavit stating that the signatory is the child’s parent might be required, possibly accompanied by any supporting documentation (proper ID for the adult, a birth certificate for the child). An independent, non-family, notary or commissioner would take the guardian’s oath on the affidavit and certify the copies of the supporting documentation.
Any proceeds from the estate would be put into a trust fund for the child until she reaches either the age of majority, or an older age specified by the testator. In the case of a tangible good, such as a necklace, I would imagine that the good would have to be safely kept by the trustee (guardian) until the child reaches the age of majority; or at least used and returned afterwards to the trustee’s safekeeping (for example, the child wants to wear the necklace at a high school prom and the trustee agrees).
But again, I am not in Florida. Florida law in this regard may differ. The OP would do well to consult a lawyer licensed to practice in Florida.
Spoons
Barrister, Solicitor, Notary Public in and for the province of Alberta
Couldn’t you just wait until she gets the passport as use that as identification?
ISTR that immunization records are a form of identification for children, along with their birth certificate, and any school records they many have.
My experience has been that the parent need to fill out all of the avidavit that they are XXXXX and YYYYYYY is their child and they have legal custody … and get that notorized.
But again not in FLA. Check this out. Section D Subsection 1
And reading on, from section E : “vii) Customer Who is a Minor - there is no prohibition of notarizing a document for a minor.”
What I found interesting was the OP said by law she can’t notarized her daughter’s signature. IIRC, the cite I provided says she could but shouldn’t due to the inherent conflict of interest. Effectively the same thing but in a case like this, it may be one of the few times a notary could get away with it.
“Yes your honor, I have know the notaree ever since she came shooting out of my birth canal like the Bolivian bobsledding team.”
“they may have”, sorry.
Inked footprint?
I know in Virginia the use of identification is not required when the Notary states that the signer is “known to me to be Jane Deaux.” So, since all you notary types are, you know, buddies and such, just get a crony to notarize it.
Tris
Ah, but if the person they are vouching for has a pecuniary interest in the notarization it may raise some ethical flags.
I was going down the same road as Triskadecamus. Personal recognizance is good enough to notarize. Is there anybody who knows your daughter personally who has a notary’s license?
Maybe this will help:
http://law.jrank.org/pages/11423/-X-Signature.html
quote:
“X” as a signature refers to a cross that is printed in lieu of an individual’s signature. A signature is required to authenticate wills, deeds, and certain commercial instruments. Typically, individuals sign their full names when executing legal documents. Sometimes, however, individuals use only their initials or other identifying mark. For illiterate, incompetent, or disabled people, this mark is often the letter X. Documents signed with an X sometimes raise questions as to their validity and enforceability.
For example, wills must be signed by the testator in order to be valid and enforceable. A testator’s signature may take the form of his full name, nickname, initials, or other identifying mark, including a thumbprint or blood splotch. In many jurisdictions testators may authenticate their last will and testament with the letter X. Before an X may be treated as a binding signature during a proceeding to contest a will, courts commonly require the testimony of two people who witnessed the signature. The witnesses may also be questioned by the court to determine if the testator declared her intention of completing the will by signing it in this fashion. In other states the law requires courts to invalidate wills that are signed with an X unless the testator was physically or mentally incapable of signing her full name. Similar rules are applied by courts when evaluating the enforceability of real estate deeds that are signed with an X.
Signatures also form the legal basis of negotiable instruments. Section 3-401(2) of the UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE (UCC) provides that “[n]o person is liable on an instrument unless his signature appears thereon.” The UCC defines the term signature as any name, TRADE NAME, assumed name, word, or other identifying mark used in lieu of a signature (§ 3-401(2)). The term signed is defined by the UCC as any symbol executed or adopted by a party with the “present intention of authenticating a writing” (§ 1-201(39)). Thus, commercial instruments, such as checks and promissory notes, may be signed by affixing any symbol that an individual intends to represent his signature. Consequently, courts will enforce commercial contracts signed with an X without regard to an individual’s mental or physical ability to sign her full name, though mental or physical incapacity may be relevant if a particular contract is alleged to be the product of overreaching, UNDUE INFLUENCE, or coercion.
Read more: “X” as a Signature "X" as a Signature - Signed, Name, Commercial, and Mark - JRank Articles
IANAFlaL or Fla. notary, but I was thinking something like this, too (so long as the “crony” has no conflict of interest). Or there could be an additional signature line on the affidavit for you or the other parent, saying “This affidavit was signed in my presence by my daughter jtgainkid, age 6, this ____ day of March, 2010.” Better still, or in addition, have two other family friends with no conflict of interest sign the affidavit, under the statement, “This affidavit was signed in my presence by jtgain’s daughter [name], age 6, who is well-known to us, this ____ day of March, 2010.”