Call me a devil’s advocate, but does George Lucas really have any obligations to these people to portray minorities? His movie, his casting, his script, nope, I don’t see where he has to appease these people. I do love how me made two of the baddest muthafuckas on the galaxy, Mace and Jango, minorities, but he had no obligation to. He made these excellent and awesome characters minorities because he wanted to, not because of some special intrest group pressuring him to.
Stormtroopers representing Mexicans jumping the border? What a fucking stretch!
Jamaican? Please. I’ve spent plenty of time with folks from the West Indies - Jamaica, Trinidad, Tobago, and Barbados. Rest assured that none of them sound remotely like drooling baby-talking morons. As for the “minstrel” bit, Jar-Jar’s antics were based on physical comics of the silent era - primarily Harold Lloyd and Buster Keaton. Most of those corny sight gags were lifted directly from their films. Jar-Jar references goofy clumsy white guys. Yes, he’s offensive – but racist? Try again.
Work on accent recognition. Explain to us in what way the Neimoidian’s accents are similar to Japanese accents. I don’t hear any consonance at all – And I’m an anime geek. As for who the Neimoidian’s are based on, look a little closer to home: Viceroy “Nute Gunray”? Senator “Lott”“Dodd”? Hey, white guys.
Again, what accent does he have? You can project any ethnic stereotypes you want onto aliens, if you accept the racist stereotypes in the first place. You might say Chewbacca was a cartoon of blacks- He’s tall (like a basketball player,) looks like a primitive jungle-dweller, and has an uncontrollable temper, so that he might rip your arms off if you beat him at a game. Just ignore that he doesn’t have anything in common with actual folks of african descent, and voila! Chewbacca’s racist.
Well, I think you all are missing the most obviously and explicitly racist character in Star Wars: Anakin Skywalker. This character perpetrates the hurtful myth that white people are genocidal psychopaths. Yeah, Jar Jar is a Caribbean stereotype, but he never blew up a planet! For shame, George! For shame!
As was mentioned earlier the thing that urked me most in this article
It shows that these people didn’t even WATCH the fucking movie. He didn’t call his father “baba” the father called the kid “BOBA” which any Star Wars fan knows is the name of the character with the coolest fucking action figure besides Darth Vader and the Storm Troopers, Boba Fett from the original goddamn trilogy.
Looking at Phantom Menace, it was one of the SHITTIEST movies of all time. We tried to watch it prior to seeing Attack of the Clones and didn’t make it 15 minutes into it, so analyzing it to death gives it more credence than it’s worth. Perhaps it was based on stereotypes, however I would say this is more likely to be a reference to an older character and a claim to Lucas’s laziness than anything.
As Yoda was compared to Degobrah, you can also compare Anakin to Achilles. And let’s face it, Anakin ain’t a fucking good guy, so all this bullshit about how the white good guy turns into the evil "james earl jones’ Darth Vader is ridiculous. I mean, I saw Yoda as a combination of Mr. Miyagi in the original trilogies to Bruce Lee in his combat movements in the new one. Yoda always had that air of the asian mystic who pretended to be a buffoon to analyze how his potential students would react to a master who was not serious. We see this character in every anime and hong kong kung fu movie. However no one cares that Yoda is a stereotype because he’s someone to be admired.
While we’re at it, why don’t we bitch that every single member of the fucking Empire was British. All the officers on every fucking star destroyer had a british accent. I think this is a blatant stereotype of Imperial Britain’s Royal Navy. Lucas makes no secret that he draws his inspiration from history as well as myth and legend. It’s called ARCHETYPING. Now to come back to the original point, he ARCHETYPED in the Phantom Menace, but just as he did a shitty job with EVERYTHING ELSE on that godawful movie, he did a SHITTY JOB of archetyping. Jar Jar Binks was just an iredeemable character, he’s a MORON. No one wants to be associated with a moron. I didn’t notice that any of the other gungan’s sounded like Step’n Fetchit. As Samuel L Jackson said, the only reason anyone makes the comparison is because the ACTOR is Jamaican.
When are these people who look for stereotypes in EVERYTHING gonna realize that THEY are the ones reinforcing the stereotypes because MOST PEOPLE don’t even notice them until they read an article in the Detroit News about it.
Oh yeah, I think Emperor Palpatine is representing a stereotype of white Western Europeans as always wanting to rule the world.
Jar Jar Binks is a duck-billed fucking underwater-living alien. With floppy ears. God damn I can’t believe anyone even has to explain that!
No one notices an evil white guy. Al Pachino as the devil? Not an issue. Kevin Spacey as a serial killer? Not an issue. Brad Pitt as a totally anarchic alter ego? Not an issue.
Morgan Freeman as a good guy? Not an issue. Whoopi Goldberg as a feel-good character? Not an issue. Jackie Chan? Puh-leeze. Jet Li?—good and bad, neither an issue.
To put the race card in you have to take others out, and then you aren’t playing with a full deck. Reflect on it and be healed.
If I hear one more person–on this board, on TV, or IRL–say the “race card” one more damn time, I think I’m going to leap out of a window and impale myself on a white picket fence!!
Ok, theories on the stereotypes that the characters are based on, as presented to me by friends, mass media, and this very message board (and I’m sure I’m leaving many out):
Jar-Jar: Jamaican. Blacks in general. Sicillian.
Trade Federation: Japanese. French. Italian.
Watto: Jewish. Arab. The Kentucky Flying Blue People (ok, I made that one up).
Jango/Bobba Fett: Mexican. Arab.
So, what you’ll notice here, is that these “incredibly obvious” stereotypes are seen as different “incredibly obvious” stereotypes by large groups of different people. To me that reeks of bullshit. If it were actually there, there wouldn’t be 8 different theories for each character.
I don’t see how anyone could watch episode one and not see the stereotypes. As I said earlier, I saw it on opening night without hearing any talk about it and saw the stereotypes. I do resent the implication from the defenders of the faith that those of us who noticed it were “brainwashed”, and can’t think for ourselves. I never said there was anything wrong with those who didn’t notice it.
Would someone have to be brainwashed into reading something into it in order to see Ming the merciless from Flash Gordon as an asian stereotype? After all, he’s an alien. He has green blood. How about Bre’er Rabbit’s tar baby disguise? it was a cartoon animal, how could someone read anything offensive into that?
None of the above. Lucas has used stereotypes–the Imperial Forces uniforms in the first trilogy were clearly based on 1930s Nazi uniforms–so it is possible that he would deliberately use stereotypes to convey other non-textual information. It is also possible that Lucas might have unconciously borrowed other stereotypes.
Certainly, Ahmed Best’s voice characterizations were clearly based on a voice pattern that might be associated with a Caribbean accent (although he did not sound like anyone from Jamaica or the Bahamas or Trinidad, etc.
On the other hand, there is no American tradition associating a Caribbean accent with a Steppin Fetchit character that I can recall. Given Ahmed Best’s actual voice, the only way for him to avoid all negative associations would have been for Best to have “talked white” in some fashion–or for Lucas to cast another actor in the role. The Gungan’s were not portrayed as buffoons, only Jar-Jar.
The problem with the attacks on the Star Wars films for their perceived stereotypes is that they seem to have been imposed from the outside. As someone noted earlier in this thread
That does not mean that the stereotypes could not have existed independently, but it does suggest (especially when the Trade Federation folks are perceived as Japanese, Chinese, Indians, Italians, and who knows what else) that that stereotype was not inherent in the film-making.
Watto is a similar case. He has been described as having been so clearly an example of so many different groups that claiming that he represents any of them becomes silly.
Stereotypes? Sure. The pod race announcer was a stereotype. The Trade Federation viceroy and his assistant were stereotypes–but of the greedy schemer and his toady assistant who find themselves out of their league rather than of any ethnic group.
The Gungans might have played on some of the old stereotypes where the hero enlists the people of a primitive culture to help defeat the bad guys. This (rather than Jar-Jar) would have been a genuinely negative stereotype, re-inforcing the notion that the heroes (good Modern Western society types) could rely on the muscle of their social inferiors (found in the Third World societies). My guess would be that Lucas (narrowly) escaped that trap by giving the Gungans their own sophisticated technology and a couple of fairly well-defined characters.
The Jedi Council with its superior knowledge and power ensconced in its mostly unhuman members also approaches old stereotypes. (And, if the council is shown to break down or make grave errors in the face of rather human challenges in the next two episodes, that will be playing to types found in movies and novels, as well.)
I do not see Lucas, however, falling into the trap of portraying any specific real-world society as the good guys or the bad guys based on their real-world stereotypes (excepting the Nazis of the first trilogy).
Does perceiving ethnic stereotypes in those films indicate either racism or hypersensitivity? Not necessarily. It would suggest a somewhat oversensitive perception, but it could be due to simply suggestability. My questions would be: did the stereotype leap out? Or did it have to be demostrated? If it was demonstrated by another person, how well did it have to be described before it was apparent? I went back and reviewed Watto’s scenes before I posted. His large nose is an elephant-like proboscis, not a large wedge or beak. His eyes have a shifty appearance, but they are not what I would call beady. His accent sounds nothing like any Russian or Jew I have ever met. And, as I noted earlier, he does not use “classically” semitic body language.
Of course not, Ming (borrowing the name of an ancient Chinese dynasty) was clearly intended (especially in the 1930s) to evoke an Asian stereotype. Now, which stereotype from Phantom has been so clear that everyone even agrees on which stereotype is represented?
Just to point some things out. This may contain some spoilers towards the end, so don’t read if you haven’t seen the movie.
The Queen of Naboo (Amidala’s successor) appeared to be played by an Indian with an Indian accent. She was in white face paint, so it wasn’t immediately obvious, but here we have an example of another position of power filled by a non-white person.
While you are reading it as negative stereotypes, IMHO it can be read totally in the opposite fashion. Sure, I read stereotypes into the aliens. That’s what you do – you anthropomorphize, I feel it is human nature. We do it with animals on the planet (black widows and jackals being domineering women are two examples).
Lucas may be accused of using stereotypes, but his “minority” characters almost always are the coolest ones in the movies. They almost always occupy positions of power, are very good at their jobs, and there is never discrimination shown ever to them. To start with ESB and ROTJ, I would rate Lando as one of the coolest characters in any of the movies. In ROTJ, he flew with an alien who I always identified as Vietnamese, for whatever reason. They blew up the second Death Star, they were total bad-ass pilots.
Boba Fett (and now Jango Fett) are also some of the coolest characters in the series as well. They are total bad-asses: Boba gets Han Solo, and Jango offs a bunch of Jedi. Mace Windu = bad mo fo, but also the second most wise Jedi. Amidala’s security brigade = high positions of power, total competence and trust.
I suppose Jar Jar could be a slight aberration. But, as is widely acknowledged, Lucas was at some level looking to make a children’s movie in Episode I. Especially because the movie centered around a 8 year old. Jar Jar was the comic relief for the children. Lucas wasn’t aiming to make an annoying character who would be hated – nobody aims to do that in a movie. Furthermore, the negative aspects of his personality (bumblingness, foolishness), I have never seen identified with Caribbean stereotypes. Yes, maybe minstrel shows, maybe Amos n’ Andy, Mushmouth, or whatever, but never with what his accent and appearance suggested – Caribbean. Despite the negative aspects, he wins the Jedis’ and the humans’ respect in Episode I, and is afforded a position of great importance in Episode II. His bumbling and foolishness (which is responsible for the fall of the Republic to some extent) is only obvious to us because we know what is going to happen by Episode IV. We know what the future holds – in Episode II not even the Jedi think that a Republican Army or President Palpatine are up to no good. Jar Jar may not be wiser than Yoda, but nobody ever held the illusion that he was.
I personally thought Jar Jar was cute and very sweet. Sorry, I’m a sucker for cute.
Anyhoo, WHO THE FUCK CARES!!!
As for Samuel L. Jackson-everytime I see him interviewed, he goes on and on about how much he LOVED being in SW, that he thinks Lucas is the coolest thing since sliced bread and he’s absolutely fucking thrilled.
monstro, I don’t know where you get the idea that Ahmed Best is Jamaican, because he clearly is not. I have heard his natural speaking voice many times in SW-related interviews, and it’s All-American. No hint of accent, Caribbean or otherwise. There is no birthplace information for Ahmed listed on the Web. If you have evidence that he is Jamaican, please present it or withdraw this ridiculous assertion.
“Southern cracker podrace announcer?” The two-headed announcer was played by Greg Proops and Scott Capurro, two regulars on “Whose Line Is It, Anyway?” There was not even the slightest hint of Southern accent. Not even a little tiny bit.
The problem I have with this whole “stereotyping” bit is this: stereotypes are used to project the perceived traits of a general population onto a specific individual. Thus, if the “stereotypical Jew” is a greedy, shrewd merchant or banker or whatever, then I am buying into stereotyping if I meet a Jew and automatically assume that he is a greedy, shrewd merchant or banker or whatever. What stereotpying generally does not mean is that only members of a given group possess those features. One can be of any “race”, and be a greedy, shrewd merchant or banker or whatever.
(Note that I am not saying I give any credibility to such stereotypes.)
Now, as this applies to The Phantom Menace:
Watto is a weird-looking, blue, winged alien guy, who happens to be a shrewd, greedy merchant. When I see “greedy blue alien with wings”, I can honestly say that I do not immediately think “Jew!”. I see “greedy blue alien with wings”. Because, as I said, even if stereotypes exist, they do not preclude other individuals from possessing the stereotyped traits. Unless it was made clear at some point that Watto was a Jew (which it most certainly was not), it is ridiculous to claim that he represents a stereotypical Jew (or even a non-stereotypical Jew, for that matter). One more time for those who may not get it: he possesses a few traits which may be part of the “Jewish stereotype”, but these traits are by no means exclusive to Jews (assuming such stereotypes even have a basis in reality).
The same goes to any other allegedly-stereotypical alien race in any of the movies. It is not a case of “stereotyping” to say that a greedy, shrewd, blue alien guy with wings represents a stereotypical Jew. It is, rather, a case of an individual choosing to project his/her own potentially racist beliefs where they neither exist nor belong. It takes more than “greedy, shrewd businessman” to equate to “Jew”.
You will have to forgive me for feeling that while I am aware of stereotypes I don’t consider myself to be a racist. Recognizing that Watto was portrayed as a “Shylock” doesn’t mean that I feel the stereotype fits all Jews. Recognizing that Jar-Jar talks like Mushmouth and is a sycophantic boob doesn’t mean I believe all blacks talk funny and are clumsy servants of the white man. Recognizing the Trade Federation as “Yellow menace” villains doesn’t mean I believe all Asians are crooks and “white slavers”.
This was one of many missteps made in The Phantom Menace, the aliens in the original movies were by and large inspired by mythology- in episode one they were inspired by old movie serial villains.
Being aware of stereotypes is one thing. Projecting them onto alien beings is quite another. Watto was only being portrayed as a “Shylock” in the minds of those who chose to see him as such. The rest of us saw him as a weird-looking alien, with some perhaps all-too-human traits. Ditto for the Neimoidians and Gungans.
