Home Owners Associations are the Nazis of suburbia. They can all die and go to hell.
I see my neighbor’s house for maybe 30 seconds a week when I pass by while driving to work, and that’s only if I bother to turn my head. They could have naked orgies on their lawn for all I care, as long as they keep it on their side of the fence. Its your lawn, you should be able to leave it with as much leaves as you want.
Charter Member
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Manhattan + Long Island
Posts: 1,885
Quote:
Originally Posted by **Cat Whisperer** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11722082#post11722082)
*Sorry, **Digger**, but reading between the lines and accounting for how your version of the story is the best version and the truth is probably about 50% worse, you don't sound like a great neighbour. You actually *can't* afford to live there if you can't keep up with your yard because of financial and physical problems, not just make excuses for why you can't do it properly. Keeping up the yard (at least the front one that everyone sees) is part of living in any neighbourhood. What seems to you like just leaving your old leaves in a pile for a couple of days looks to your neighbours like, "Oh, God, they've got a big mess in their yard AGAIN. It's been three years of looking at their messes. And would those dogs ever SHUT UP?" (Speculating based on my own experiences.)*
Cat Whisperer states very clearly, “(Speculating based on my own experiences.)” Is CW supposed to be speculating on your experiences, too?
The more I reread the OP, I tend to agree with Cat Whisperer. Yes, THespos, yard upkeep is a part of living in a nice neighborhood. It’s why you’ve maintained your own property. It’s not a question of snobbery, it’s part of your property. It’s part of the cost of homeowning. Sure, ti’s not a requirement if it’s not in you HOA, but neighbors will be annoyed if it gets out of control. Digger, if you are unable to keep up, and your wife is unable to help, and after it snows it takes several days before you can clear the sidewalk of snow (a municipal requirement in every city I’ve lived in) (you’ve not stated whether the snow in fact bothers anyone or whether it’s just that you feel self-conscious about it), and you’ve let your weeds go for 2+ years, and keep your leaves piled on the strip between your sidewalk and street because you haven’t gotten around to cleaning them up, and your yard is a general eyesore to you and others, then you have a problem. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t have a bad back and at least one bad foot, and we all handle the upkeep (pay neighborhood teens, concentrate on what is in front, etc.). How would your neighbors find out if you are a great guy? All they see is your 2+ year overgrown yard, your treacherous snow-covered slippery sidewalk, and your leaves piled up in front of the street. From their point of view, things aren’t very pleasant. That’s not even including the dogs, who I hope are as reasonably well-behaved as you think.
When you say you’ve tried to treat your weeds for 2 summers, “but It didn’t work out as well as I’d like,” I hope you mean dandelions and clover in the grass. If you mean an overgrown jumble of weeds tumbling out onto the piles of leaves by the street, then that’s different.
Your wife overheard you neighbors complaining only once. They may not be as bad as you’re thinking. FWIW, last fall, after my next-door neighbors’ trees dropped their leaves all over their yard and mine (I’ve never cared a bit), the very pregnant wife raked up their leaves, and then came over and raked them up in my yard, too (over my protests!).
My yard is not a pile of weeds. I only brought up my dogs as a way to compare to what used to be here (a day care). The one dog doesn’t hear too well anymore so I need to yell more than I’d like to or usually send the other dog out to get him. He does it in true Border Collie fashion by running up to him, barking in his face and trying to get the older dog to chase. I think that’s better than trying to yell in vain for him. The backyard is fenced and pretty isolated so there isn’t any issue with the dogs barking at every passer by.
When I used to live in the lower income/rental neighborhood, I had kids (and adults) offer to help me w/ my yard all the time. Now that I’m here, maybe the kids are too rich, but nothing. Whether I raked my leaves into a pile between the curb & gutter or whether I raked them next to my driveway is immaterial, a pile of leaves is a pile of leaves.
BTW, I did go out yesterday and worked with my leaf sucker on & off for about 4 hours. I made decent progress, but needless to say, I’m feeling like hell this morning. I’m posting this before 5am, because comfortable sleep wasn’t in the cards. My goal was to get the front yard done this weekend and still go out and watch the Packers. But I highly doubt if I can go out and sit comfortably for 3.5 hours and watch a game. I’ll probably just stay at home, therefore I can change positions & potentially pause the game for awhile if I need to.
When I was very young, I used to ask my father “If you couldn’t afford 3 kids, why did you have 3 kids”. Some of the respondants to this thread remind me of that attitude. The answer is, circumstances change. I would love it if my wife could help me more. I would love it if she were working so I could afford to hire someone. So you do the best you can do, and if some people look down their noses, so be it. Buying this house a few years ago, looked like a wonderful opportunity, now, that’s debatable. I can’t just walk away from it though. Only thing I can do is carry on. I just wish the neighbors had better things to do.
In your neighborhoods, is there always “that one house”? The one that stands out from all others. (This is nothing to do with the discussions here, just curious if it’s common in other neighborhoods.)
When we moved into our suburban house we had a gravel driveway, and due to various circumstances it took us over a year to have a paved driveway put in. And landscaping the front yard had to wait, too. So I lived in “that house”, painfully aware it was lacking, for a while (though I made damn sure the lawn was neat as a pin and there was a fabulous hanging basket on the front porch as long as weather permitted.) There is an awful example of “that house” near us - nothing has ever been done to it. There is a dirt path for a driveway where a junker car sits. Weeds sprout around the foundation 3 feet high. Recycling bins and trash cans are out front 7 days a week. The pathetic lawn IS mowed as there are ordinances against letting the lawns go. I drove by one day and there was the creepy old woman who lived there out front - the garage door was open, and it was stacked chock full, the entire space, with cardboard boxes. I think she has mental problems/is a pack rat - maybe a hoarder? Really, her house is an eyesore. I often wonder what the deal is, what her neighbors think, and what the inside is like…
My parents had neighbours that not only cared about the snow in other people’s lawns, but who once complained to my father about “his” snow ending up in their driveway when the snowplow came by. Now, I can understand being pissed off if someone was deliberately shoveling their driveway into the street, but that wasn’t the case. This was merely the result of living in Québec in the winter - the snowbanks end up in the 6-7 foot range (along the entire length of a 2x2 car driveway!) and everyone’s yard gets “extended” into the street as it becomes increasingly impossible to shovel snow onto the sides of the drives.
This is the same neighbour who called the cops when the neighbourhood kids were playing street hockey at the end of the dead end road, called the cops because one neighbour’s dog was sleeping on the front porch off-leash, and called the cops on my parents when a few of the kids on the street were swimming in the pool one afternoon and were “making too much noise”.
Anyone moving onto a dead end street within walking distance of two elementary schools in a residential neighbourhood who gets upset about kids and dogs needs to get their heads examined. Luckily these neighbours have moved away, and a lovely family with two kids and two dogs have moved in, adding to the horde of 5-8 year old ruffians terrorizing the neighbourhood. Everyone is much happier! Oh, and the crazy neighbour’s impecably landscaped lawn got dug up, had a pool placed in it, and is covered in toys.
While I feel sympathy for your medical and financial situation, it might be useful to look at things from your neighbors’ perspective. They did not contribute to your personal situation, yet they are suffering because of it. (Most people would agree that barking dogs, messy yards and unshoveled walks reduce the quality of life in a neighborhood.) I can understand why they are upset.
Perhaps explaining your situation to your neighbors might help. If they know you and your wife have physical disabilities they may be more understanding.
I never would have guessed it, but I believe we have a polarizing issue here.
I have always maintained that there are two kinds of people – basically, it’s Felix vs. Oscar.
And never the twain shall meet.
My take on this is different. If you want to live in a neighborhood full of perfectly manicured lawns where everything is just so, then move to a subdivision where there is a HOA that can force homeowners to do this. Usually, the tradeoff is that they can tell you what color to paint your house and what kind of windows you have to install. Otherwise, as long as the yard gets cut and the leaves get taken care of, who cares?
Pink Flamingos.
Mrs. Digger here- just want to clarify. By “weeds” he means a few patches of clover or other low profile weeds in the lawn, no dandelions, etc. Leaves sat for less than a week; he was out there every day doing a little at a time. If snow isn’t shoveled the morning after it falls, it’s done by that evening, drive and walk. And we have the best dogs ever- if they make so much as a peep, they go back in the house and they never ever leave our yard. This is not “that house.” Neighbor never said “boo” to me despite the smiles and waves from my side. The issue is that Mr. Part-time-job who also has college age sons has never lifted a finger in his own yard but points at the hardworking Joe who may be one day behind but gets the job done. He is the guy who’d call animal control if your cat were sleeping on your front porch.
No. The point is, I thought it silly and a bit trollish to claim that the OP was understating the problem at all.
I have an impeccably-maintained lawn and I couldn’t disagree more.
Regardless of what neighborhood covenants, HOAs, etc. dictate, I believe people should have the right to pretty much do whatever they like with their property unless they’re creating a hazard.
Yeah, I know, I’m probably in the minority, but my experience has been that most people who want to meddle with how other people can enjoy their own property tend to be these meddling jerks who have nothing better to do. Many of those wouldn’t know the first thing to do if they were ever forced to do their own yard upkeep themselves without hiring a lawn service or a neighborhood kid. I find that attitude remarkably hypocritical and sadly detached from reality. But it’s all too common.
In this particular situation, we’re talking about some leaves, weeds and snow that perhaps stay around a bit longer than the OP might like, with a reasonable excuse. So I have trouble understanding the hostility.
The disconnect I’m seeing with the OP is that if you move into a neighbourhood with impeccably-kept yards, don’t be surprised when they expect the same of you.
On every house deed and mortgage document should be printed, in bold lettering;
“You have the right to control only that which occurs up to, but not beyond, the border of your property.”
At the very least it should be pointed out to first time homeowners. It would clear up a lot of misunderstandings. And, if people lived by it, it seems to me, peace would reign in the community.