Now that Elon Musk has bought Twitter - now the Pit edition (Part 1)

I think this is a micharacterization. I’ve followed Musk for years. Like anyone else, he has good moments and bad ones. I’m only a ‘fanboy’ of what he has done for space access. I am happy that he claims to be for free speech and getting rid of censorship, but wary that he’s just going to replace one form of censorship with another. Initial signs are not good. We’ll see.

See, there’s an apparent fundamental difference between me and just about everyone else here it seems: I am completely able to separate personal politics from everything else. Two of my favorite artists were hardcore liberals. Some of my favorite writers are way to the left of me. Many actors I like and anticipate watching have personal behaviours that I find reprehensible. So what?

I try to judge actions, not people. I don’t really care what Elon Musk thinks about politics, except when those thoughts affect things in the real world. I called him an ass for his ‘pedo’ comment during that emergency cave rescue. I called Hyperloop idiotic. I didn’t think much of the Boring company. And I’ve said from the beginning that Musk’s skills may not map well to running a social media company and he could get himself into trouble.

None of those decisions had anything to do with Musk’s politics. I honestly thought he was a center-left liberal, and I think that is still true. He was caught completely by surprise over the WEF thing, which tells me he doesn’t pay much attention to the right historically.

I put Musk in the same category as Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Russell Brand, Bret Weinstein and other people who thought of themselves as members of a left that no longer exists, and are finding that the right is willing to accept them as the Jacobin left kicks them out. They aren’t right wing: at best they are uneasy travelers with the right at a time when the left has become anti-free speech and authoritarian.

I was never center-left. I’ve always been pretty much libertarian-right. That gave me lots of common ground with the left on issues of civil rights, free speech, etc. The modern left has abandoned that stuff in favor of identity politics, and the modern right has become populist, leaving me with no home. If I sympathize with Musk around politics at all, it’s that he probably feels the same way.

In any event, I support people or not based on specific issues, and I don’t care what their political views are (obviously unless they are politicians). I have supported and opposed stuff Musk did before and after he ‘changed’. I was one of the ones supporting Alec Baldwin. I thought Bill Clinton was a decent President. And I have also supported Sarah Palin and Trump on specific issues where I thought they were right, while also believing that neither of them should be anywhere near Presidential politics. That gets me in trouble here, as the board Zeitgeist seems to be that when a public figure is in the wrong party, any attempt all all to support them on any issue is seen as traitorous and gets attacked. I see the same thing on the right, where everyone assumed Alec Baldwin was guilty and I was the asshole for thinking otherwise, merely because of the guy’s politics.

That’s the libertarian in me, which you probably don’t understand. As a final example: I get along with all of you and have probably supported all of you on some issue or another on this board, even though you attack me uncharitably in the Pit and are completely opposed to my politics. I have corrected errors by many of you over some issue or another over the years without ever thinking someone should be pitted for it. I’m capable of looking at everything on an issue by issue basis, and evaluating people based on their current actions and not their past or their political affiliation. Forgiveness and understanding are also big parts of my worldview. Life is too short for grudges and enemy lists. I have never blocked a single person on the internet.

In an ideal liberatian world, politics won’t matter at all and we’d never discuss it because government would be too small to be such a threat.

As for the right and their conspiracies, I look at everything individually. Remember when the idea of a lab leak origin was considered beyond the pale and a comspiracy theory?

The right was broken the day the George Floyd riots happened in the middle of a lockdown and public health people trotted out and said that since racism was a bigger threat than the pandemic, the riots were good. They never trusted a thing public health authorities said after that. I don’t agree with them, but I understand.

The vax chip thing was a simple conflation of two events. Norman Bourla talking about microchips in pills to ensure compliance, and another talk about implantable under-the-skin RFID chips for identification. I also said that I understood that having a presentation at the WEF does not mean they are trying to implement that program. But then I linked directly to the WEF programs that HAVE been implemented or tried to, to great harm.

And let’s not forget that there were plenty of anti-vax Democrats when they thought it was a ‘Trump vaccine’. Then Biden was elected, took credit for the vaccines, and everything was okay on the left, but for the right the vaccines went from a ‘Trump miracle’ to a deadly ‘clotshot’. And skepticism of big pharma completely flipped from the left to the right. Partisanship makes everyone stupid.

This is a good observation. Musk seems to both want the ad revenue, but doesn’t want the advertisers to have any say in the content that surrounds their ads. He’s even said that the problem with Twitter was that the ad-driven model required a hefty amount of censorship to please the advertisers.

Then he hires an ad executive for CEO. It’s a strange choice. And her WEF connections greatly pissed off his new friends on the right. On the other hand, you might argue that hiring her was an attempt to placate the left and get some of them back, and he figured the right would be okay with it. Or, it’s just a complete unforced error.

The other possibility is that we are looking at it from the wrong angle - this isn’t just an ad play, he needed someone connected to the media universe (she’s ex-chair of NBC-Universal, isn’t she? Or some high-up NBCU exec?). He wants to turn Twitter into a content aggregator, payment aggregator, etc. He’ll need to work with established media compamies to do that. Maybe that’s what he expects from her.

Or, he wants her to bear his children.

Why do you still accept the oh-so-obvious fiction that Musk is for “free speech”?

It’s certainly not because he’s blinded by being a fanboi, that’s for sure!

There is: you cite shit without reading it. The rest of what you’re saying in this self-aggrandizing self-pitying post is storm and fury, signifying nothing. Start reading your cites and using them carefully and in context–just as an experiment–and see what happens.

Until then, you’re best ignored as an annoying dishonest intellectually lazy self-pitying distraction.

Of all the bullshit you spew, this has got to be the bullshitiest. YOU chose to prioritize the lies of the right that they were somehow “fiscally conservative” over issues like “civil rights, free speech, etc.” And now that you realize what “the right” is truly about at its core, you pretend that the left suddenly are no longer working for civil rights FOR EVERYONE or that they no longer work for free speech. You have to do this because your ego is so fragile that you need to protect your delusion that you’re somehow a “good person”, despite “the right”'s current policies of hatred, demonization of “the other” and their rollback of rights you claim you support.

It’s hard to admit out loud, or even to yourself, that fiscal policies are more important to you than social justice. So, to protect the delusion that you’re a good person and that you’re really pro-civil rights, you pretend “the left” has stopped working for civil rights and completely ignore who is actually responsible for the current rollback of civil rights.

But don’t worry. You’re not alone. There are thousands, maybe millions, of deluded people like you who are willing to ignore the horrible treatment of minorities, the rollback of civil rights, and the falsities of the right being “fiscal conservative”, just to protect your own ego.

Whereas now, Musk’s “whatever the fuck it is” model requires a hefty amount of censorship to please the autocratic dictatorial politicians.

Much better.

Christ, you people just cannot resist giving him what he wants.

First of all, the idea that people should be considered good or bad based on who they vote for is one of the dumbest, most destructive ideas around. It wouldn’t even occur to me to try to puff myself up morally by displaying my political beliefs.

You could vote straight Republican or far-left Democrat, and it doesn’t mean shit about who you are as a person. There are plenty of Demorats and Republicans who are awful people, and plenty who are good people. I more suspect that people that are constantly virtue signalling their politics are compensating for other, nastier beliefs or actions.

Second, civil rights do not equal social justice. In fact, they are often opposed to each other. The shift on the left to ‘social justice’ instead of individual rights is one of the worst things to happen to America recently.

And I have no trouble fighting for both fiscal sanity and civil rights, because civil rights are incompatible with a bankrupt government, and the right to live for your own goals includes the right to keep a substantial amount of the money you earn. And when governments print and borrow money, they are taxing the public through inflation, a very regressive tax.

Also, owning property and keeping the fruits of your own labor ARE civil rights. The left just doesn’t recognize it any more. The right to property is a fundamental human right.

I’m just going to leave this here in case you didn’t spot the hypocrisy in it the first time around.

Like I said, I am skeptical of Musk’s commitment to ‘free speech absolutism’, especially since he’s already done some censoriing of content he didn’t like. You guys keep calling me a Musk fanboy, but then you ignore my criticisms and put opinions in my mouth I don’t hold.

He also recently caved to Turkey’s demands that he cut off some of the opposition’s speech on Turkish Twitter. He complied. He also has a big problem with conflicts of interest. I don’t know what happens if China tells him to censor Twitter or they just might have to look at Tesla’s operations in China…

You’re absolutely right. I have no idea why I felt the need to post when it’s absolutely clear he has no interest in actual debate, he’s intellectually dishonest (social justice v. civil rights semantic games) and there is no hope whatsoever of making any change. When you have to stoop to excusing the massive rollback of human rights by conservatives and their continued hatred of “the other” with a forced “money is a right too”, you’re beyond hope. My bad.

Uh, I guess others were right, you are only hijacking this as there is very little you can do to support Musk, seems that only @naita made a reference to voting republican in this thread, and it was to point out about a Musk Twitter post that told everyone to do that. As for @Hamlet point that ““the right”'s current policies of hatred, demonization of “the other” and their rollback of rights” are appalling… well they are, and if good people are voting for them, it can be explained by many as just plain ignorance of what is going on, and ignorance about what will be the results of not ever wondering if it should be ok to vote for the current Republican freaks.

So to stick with Twitter, a lot of what you have posted without looking at the source or content, comes from conspiracy extremist sources that do want to see the world burn, and one big issue now is to find that Musk and Twitter are not countering that kind of noxious propaganda, but are encouraging it.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/18/tech/davos-conspiracy-theories/index.html

It’s not just Beck who is using the event to push this fringe rhetoric. New Twitter owner Elon Musk, who responded on Sunday to a conspiratorial thread about the gathering at Davos, said the “S in ESG,” which stands for WEF’s “environmental, social, and governance” criteria, “stands for Satanic.” (Musk also claimed he was invited to the gathering, but organizers said he was not on the guest list.)

Alex Friedfeld, associate director with the ADL Center on Extremism, told me Tuesday that the use of extreme rhetoric and the endorsement of conspiracy theories from leading voices on the right has resulted in the outlandish claims reaching far more people than they once did.

“The fact is that these conspiracies have bounced around in more fringe parts of the internet,” Friedfeld said. “But when you have folks like Tucker Carlson or Glenn Beck — they start to normalize these conspiracies, they expose millions of more people to these ideas.”

In particular, Friedfeld pointed to “The Great Reset” conspiracy theories, noting that the term has “largely been divorced” at this point from its 2020 Covid origins and become “a broad brand for conspiracies” about how global elites are plotting to use the masses for their own benefits. Friedfeld said that, in particular, the use of the term “The Great Reset” by mainstream figures is cause for alarm because it can send people down a rabbit hole.

A rabbit hole that when one does notice it, one can see how the right can freak out about less than 3 thousand farms in the Netherlands being forced to stop their excess nitrogen pollution when more than 50 thousand farms there are not having much of an issue.

If you admit this, then why did you repeat the lie that Musk is in favor of free speech?

These facts were probably kept in the ancestral memory of one of the various public policy teams that were first on the chopping block when Musk took over.

That’s a very good point. Besides losing essential manpower and individual skills, Elmo’s indiscriminate mass firings also destroyed Twitter’s institutional knowledge and competence. On one hand, it doesn’t matter because all of Elmo’s policies are guided by his own giant brain. On the other hand, it matters a great deal from the standpoint of having – either now or ever again – a functional organization.

Yaccarino (whose name always reminds me of The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time) is going to have a real uphill battle, to say the least. She may not last long. Her skills and contacts in the advertising business may bring in advertisers in the short term, but as long as Elmo keeps meddling in Twitter’s basic policies and keeping Yaccarino strictly to the business side (and he will) it’s hard to see how things will get any better. Yaccarino may have the title of CEO, but like Gwynne Shotwell at SpaceX, she’s really be a COO, or worse, basically just Marketing VP.

I agree she’s only CEO in name, although I disagree on what her actual job title should be.

(Does taking on this role require a greater lack of self-respect than standing on a corner?)

I dunno, the fact that it’s no-win for her in the short term makes it almost no-lose in the long term. No matter how her stint at twitter fails, it can be spun pretty compellingly as “not her fault.” “I woulda done well except for, well, y’know.”

This gig will be a brain-melting cluster, but it could lead to the next gig elsewhere.

Because what he has always believed changes. Hence why he’s created this new version of himself that isn’t a conservative who attacks people for being liberal or progressive. It’s why you don’t see him acknowledge that he’s wrong–he rewrites it so he didn’t do it.

Notice how he’s not at any point admitted that the stuff we said were problems were problems, and not just us existing in an echo chamber? That those of us who went to multiple sources knew more than him quoting Musk himself? How he hates us for making the “agile” jokes, but won’t admit that was a bad argument?

Yeah, I know. Even replying here is playing his game. But it’s just so frustrating. You can literally point out what he’s done, and he’ll just say that isn’t true and then say a bunch of unrelated stuff about how we’re bad people. Or how he’s not liberal, as if my post calling him a conservative didn’t happen.

He’s a conservative who attacks liberals and progressives. That’s what’s he known for.

Anyways, I needed to finish this to calm down and go to bed. I don’t know why I was dumb enough to open this thread this late at night. But I’m not going to spend the time reorganizing this. I’ve already spent too much time erasing a reply directly to the guy, which would be even worse.

I’m taking a timeout from reading what he has to say, anyways.

It’s hard to see how a failure with a very good excuse could be better than the solid record that Yaccarino was already building. Maybe you’re saying that if she can pull this off, against all odds, it will be the accomplishment of a lifetime. No, it won’t. Elmo will take all the credit, because he’s a genius, and she’s just a flunky that he hired to take some of the workload off.

If and when this all finally collapses, I’m sure Yaccarino will land on her feet and do well, but this interlude will have been nothing but a waste of time. Her best hope is that Elmo gets run over by a self-driving Tesla.

If Musk continues down the road he’s on, people who did high-level work for him will pick up the stink and have trouble finding work elsewhere. “The lunatic I chose to work for put me in an untenable situation” isn’t a stellar excuse.