But no one DOES deny that it’s true, so that’s why there’s absolutely no point in bringing it up. Unless one is wanting to concern troll, or to muddy the waters.
Individual things have varied characteristics. That’s a fact.
Child rape is wrong. That is also a fact.
Adding that first fact into that second fact makes it look like you’re starting to say something very specific, and frankly, squicky. It’s like starting a sentence with “I’m not a racist, but…” NO! Just stop right there! That’s your warning that you shouldn’t say whatever it is you were going to say!
All I can say about this for myself is that I am now exceptionally grateful that I didn’t like her writing style or her plots way back before I knew any of this, and so I can continue to NOT recommend her works to people, and not have her works in my personal collection with no difficulties at all. It has to be a difficult thing for people who do like her work.
For me, a similar concern (not nearly so gut-wrenchingly awful) is Orson Scott Card and John C. Wright, both of whom are truly disgusting homophobes, and in Wright’s case, appears to be misogynist and racist as well. Really causes me trouble because I very much enjoy some of the things they’ve written, but I really really don’t want to be supporting either of the little shits.
And that’s all the more reason to be suspicious of someone saying it. Why bring up something that is inarguably true? Because you don’t mean what the literal words mean.
Okay…now we are working our way into conversational territory where I don’t think we want to go. When we start seeing calls for being suspicious of each other it is time to lock the thread the fuck down.
“Less bad” is NOT the same as “OK” or whatever the hell you think I’m saying.
That is specifically why I refer to these two examples as “bad and worse”. Or “bad and horrific”.
Being sexually interested in someone who appears physically mature is normal. ACTING on that may be wrong for a variety of reasons, up to and including “this child is unusually mature looking and is really too young to be a sex object despite appearances”. I am very much in favor of age of consent laws, laws that basically say it doesn’t matter how old a person appears to be, you can not have sex with them without breaking the law. We wouldn’t need those laws if there weren’t such cases. “Your honor, she looked 18” will not get you mercy from the judge (or at least it shouldn’t).
Being sexually interested in immature human beings, in babies and toddlers, is NOT normal at all. It’s a sign of a much, much more dysfunctional and messed up human being.
If you can’t understand that distinction, or refuse to see it, then I feel sorry for you. I understand the appeal of a black and white world where all villains are equally guilty but that’s not how reality works.
Really? Maybe you need some therapy because it’s downright bizarre for you to get PTSD over someone else’s trauma.
Scrub away. And, you know, if you find me THAT offensive you can put me on ignore so you won’t have to be distressed by my words and I won’t have to listen to you invoke a god I don’t believe in every other sentence.
I haven’t ignored any of it, but unlike some people I don’t devolve into weeping hysteria when evil is revealed. As I have repeatedly said, I don’t give a damn what she was like personally, it will not change how I feel about re-reading her novels. Apparently some people find that offensive and want to change my opinions and feelings because they’re not acceptable and my thinking is not correct in their view.
Regrettably, that appears to be true. I’ve heard it said that swearing a sign of limited vocabulary, this is the first time I’ve seen indications of invoking the Christian god to be the same sort of limitation.
While I don’t doubt that there is more chance of physical damage in the case of the toddler, is more awareness of sexuality that much of a factor here? Bradley seemed to think that abusing a toddler was OK because the child was too young to remember but I question that assumption, are we sure that children that young don’t remember or are we hoping they don’t remember?
Is it even proper to judge who is more or less traumatized here?
We know that some adopted children can suffer life-long problems with forming relationships due to things that happened or didn’t happen in their first year of life (usually emotional neglect). We know that children who have surgery within days of birth can likewise suffer long-term psychological problems. You may not need “awareness of sexuality” to have long-term problems from molestation. The rape trauma would probably manifest differently in a toddler vs. a tween or teen, but I’m not sure we can make a determination that for the child one is worse than the other. Either way, it’s damn fucking awful for the kids.
Thank you for getting my point. I guess some people just can’t help getting hysterical to the point of losing their ability to comprehend what is written.
It’s very frustrating to be treated as an apologist for any sort of rape when I have continually repeated at every turn that NO rape is acceptable, that it is all bad, all terrible, and never acceptable.
So… why should I treat anyone making accusations any differently than I was treated? Why is Moira Greylord to be believed and I am to be doubted?
No, raping a toddler is worse because it’s a sign of something being much more fucked-up with the rapist than someone who rapes someone who appears to be physically mature. Both cases are equally criminal, they’re both horrific, they’re both unacceptable.
So, you totally missed the post where I said Mark Greylord also posting about his mother being abusive was adequate corroboration for me to say yes, it almost certainly happened…?
Of course you did. You clearly don’t give a damn what I actually write.
I think sometimes that since MZB is dead there are people looking for someone to whip in her place.
That’s a pretty fucked-up thing to say to a survivor of child sexual abuse, one of the people around here who is actually (regrettably) most qualified to actually have an opinion about the matter.
There’s a world of difference between saying there are “acceptable rapes” WHICH NO ONE IN THIS THREAD HAS EVER SAID and saying "geez, this is awful but this other thing is even worse.
You’re kind of a delusional retard. There have been many people who’ve said that they’ll keep reading her stuff, that they can separate the author from the work…and no-one has said anything negative to them. In either thread.
The reason you’re being singled out and dogpiled is because everyone (from those who will reread her books to those who will throw them out) sees you defending Bradley and Breen and using loaded words and phrases to try to undermine Moira…why you desperately want to defend two child rapists is beyond me. You’ve always struck me as being psychotic and delusional, but this is bizarre even by the remarkably low standards I already hold you in.
Can you explain why you think this is the case? I truly don’t understand your reasoning. Are you assuming that 1) the physically mature child agrees to have sex (although in legal terms being unable to consent), and that the rapist believes he is having consensual sex with someone legally capable of consent?
And I ask this without snark. Do you have much interaction with children? A physically mature ten year old simply can’t be mistaken by an adult as a much older person.
Yes, because there are so very many nuances to child-rape. It’s such a fuzzy grey line that it’s hard for people to tell “Child-rape=BAD”. I’m glad I don’t live in your delusional world where it’s hard for people to understand that “Child-rape=BAD” doesn’t have a fuzzy grey line. It is black and white. And only a diseased pervert thinks otherwise. Raping a 3 year old or a 10 year old is rape you dumb bitch. It’s non-consensual sex.
Also, you…do…understand that the corollary to your retarded comments about “It’s worse to rape a three year old than it is to rape a ten year old” is “It’s better to rape a ten year old than a three year old.” Hint: THEY’RE BOTH EQUALLY BAD.
Coming from the crazy-lady who had a 3 page shitfit about how she was molested by a guy coming into the shoe store where she worked, making a pass at her and then coming back the next day to ask why the pass didn’t work (which, I’ll concede was obnoxious as hell, assuming you’re telling the truth. But with no corroborating evidence, with no pictures, no guilty verdict…you might be just making stuff up like you accused Moira of doing)–which was a trauma that left you shaking with mortal terror, you’re pretty callous to actual human suffering, aren’t you? (And…why were you so terrified anyway? Couldn’t you have just used your kung-fu to shatter his femur?)
I have never in my entire life said this, online or in person, but you are goddamn fucking retarded. And if so, that would be a step up from your reprehensible fucking defense of these people. I thought it was sad and pathetic that you are still bitter about your sister’s suicide, and still feel it’s FUCKING SELFISH of a mentally ill person to give up after a lifetime of pain, DECADES after the fact, but now I know why… there’s something fucking wrong with you. Not just a little bit, but like a huge, fucking amount.
You can discount what I say all you want because my disgust is so great that I’m not going out of my way to use flowery and polite language here, but the truth remains: you are a fucking pedophile apologist, and right up there with Cesario, it’s been one of the most disturbing justifications I’ve ever seen on this board. You need to get your own paper tube roll and content yourself at night with just what an amazing peace of work you are.
And you can spare me the response. Anytime ever, because your sorry ass is going on ignore. I may cuss like a sailor when upset, but I sure the fuck don’t lie down with damn dogs. Enjoy, you fucking nutjob.
I just reread every post Broomstick has made in this entire thread, and no, no she is not.
As far as I can tell, Broomstick is saying only two things specifically about MZB:
(1) Broomstick may or may choose to continue to read MZB’s works in the future, although she respects that others may make a different choice, and if she does so, that does not mean she morally approves of MZB’s actions
(2) While there is a lot of very strong evidence that MZB in fact is guilty of the crimes that she is accused of, (and in fact Broomstick now seems to find it very likely that she was in fact guilty) she was never convicted of them in a court of law (and clearly never will be, being dead), and it’s important to maintain a distinction between accusation and proof
In addition, she’s saying
(3) When Broomstick herself was 10, she could easily pass for 16
(4) Raping prepubescent children is different from, and worse than, raping pubescent children, but raping pubescent children is also REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY BAD.
That’s what she’s saying, and she’s been saying those things consistently since the beginning of the thread (her position on (2) adjusted when further testimony that she was previously unaware of was linked… AS IT SHOULD) and people are just teeing off on her like crazy. It’s bizarre.
Seriously, which post of Broomstick’s, precisely, do people find so horrifying?