Isn’t the message of this board “fighting ignorance?”
I’m amazed at how many people here seem to be completely okay with ignorance going unchallenged, in this case.
Fighting the ignorance of half a million journalists might be a bit too ambitious even for us.
Gyrate asked a simple question and I gave him information to fight his ignorance about assault rifles. Every little bit helps.
Believe me, if some racial or sexual identity group decided that journalists weren’t calling them by the name they wanted to be called, they would wage a campaign against the media to call them by the goddamn name they want to be called. And I think most of the people on this board would be okay with that.
So as a gun owner and a gun rights advocate, I do my part. When online publications make errors about guns, I email them to correct them.
Well, if you must. But I gotta tell you, we have our hands full correcting this “snow machines” thing.
There is ignorance, and there are nit-picks. I point to your own question:
So, if I call it an “assault rifle” before I’ve had a chance to inspect the weapon for a little black millimeter sized button, then any other point I might make is deemed moot?
Oh … it’s a “semi-automatic rifle” not an “assault rifle”? What was I thinking? Hell I suppose we should be giving those out to five-year-olds with lollipops.
If you knew the first thing about guns you’d know that actual assault rifles in civilians hands are as rare as tits on a bull. To have a weapon capable of automatic fire, while legal, requires innumerable hoops to jump through and many thousands of dollars more than the average person can spend. 99 times out of 100 when you see a civilian with what looks like a military rifle, it is semi-automatic. Not automatic. Okay? There is a general rule of thumb for you and now hopefully, you will be skeptical the next time you read some news report that mentions an “assault rifle.”
By the way, if you want a semi-automatic, AK-47 style rifle, you can get one at JG Sales for 450 dollars. The gun panic buying is over and prices are back to normal. The Romanian models are far from the best but they’re solidly built and they’ll be reasonably accurate at 100 yards. Just thought I’d throw some business their way.
What effing difference does it make, under the circumstances, whether it’s automatic or semi-automatic? He didn’t bring the thing to a gun lecture.
Just forget it. You keep missing the point, so I’m done trying to convince you.
Actually, Black Talon bullets and teflon-coated bullets are two entirely different things. Black Talons are a kind of hollownosed expanding bullet that in theory did more damage when hitting flesh. (Tests on flesh do not back up the hydrostatic shock argument.) The teflon coated bullets were coated with teflon to reduce barrel wear, not to penetrate things.
The reason they were good at penetrating things is that they were a harder than normal material. Brass, not lead. The teflon had no effect on the actual penetration, generally being worn off by the time it hit something.
All for fighting ignorance and I have seen you and others take up the cause of inappropriate use of “assault rifle” many times.
All well and good to point it out but it starts sounding more like smoke and mirrors to me as it becomes the main topic being discussed here. The issue at hand (in this thread) is people bringing guns to emotionally charged rallies where the President is present (or just bringing them to these rallies at all even if the President is not there).
Hauling off on whether it is an “assault” weapon or not misses the main point. Bringing a gun to these rallies in the point. Does it really matter much what kind of gun it is?
I did make it clear. Many people, politicians, and people in the media want guns to be further restricted than they are currently. And so they lie to drum up hysteria.
See, the left on this board will claim that it’s always the republicans with the lies to rile up the base - death panels, socialists - whatever. And for the most part, republicans are more guilty of using underhanded tactics in the debate. But gun control is one issue where the left lies and lies and lies, and yet the people of this board (generally, there are exceptions) will justify or become apologists for those lies.
If you want to claim moral superiority in terms of honest debate, here’s an area for you to work on.
It’s vague, because it’s deliberately meant to be vague. “This weapon is an assault rifle, and…” “What? No it isn’t, it may look like one, but assault rifles function like this, and therefore…” “Fine, then it’s an assault weapon!” “Well, uh, I guess, since you’re inventing that term…” “Fine! Anything scary looking is an assault weapon!” is essentially the purpose behind the word. It’s not “useless” in the sense that congress has actually passed laws declaring weapons to be assault weapons and has banned them in the past.
I was under the impression that the Black Talons were teflon coated (so that the exposed end of the hollow points didn’t damage the barrel) and so we’re talking about teh same thing.
I agree that the point is not particularly relevant to the issue at hand. But media reports I’ve seen on the incident emphasized that OMG SOMEONE HAS AN ASSAULT RIFLE! - which is both a lie and making a big deal out of nothing. Is it any more or less of a statement, or of a danger, if he had a shotgun or a hunting rifle or a pistol?
Incidentally, I wouldn’t have raised the point in this thread, but it became an issue of discussion and I hoped I could clarify the point.
In general, threads involving guns seem to have the greatest ability to derail and regress to a generic gun control debate.
No, and not it isn’t. The UK is in pretty messed up shape right now.
If you’re picking and choosing which parts of the bill of rights we can do away with why fixate on the second amendment after all?
(my emphasis)
There’s the thing.
“It’s an assault rifle.”
“No. It’s just a semi-automatic rifle (that could still kill 20 people inside of a minute without re-loading) … you know, no big deal.”
Yes. It is a big deal whether you want to call it an “assault rifle” a “semi-automatic rifle” or “shiny happy fun-joy spreader.”
It’s a big deal.
Why lie?
In that scenario, a common shotgun would kill more people more quickly. Would it get the same level of hysteria?
The issue here is that people are bringing guns to the rallies - what does it matter if they’re handguns or rifles or shotguns or what?
Edit: I suppose I can accept that it’s notable that someone is carrying around long guns, since open carry of handguns is relatively more common and less deliberate. But in this case it’s the media deciding to make an issue of the specific type of gun involved, and then lying about it. Why defend that? Why defend ignorance?
May as well say it’s loaded with cop killer bullets and it was probably bought through the gun show loophole too. It’s irrelevant to the issue at hand except that it provides the media the excuse to say OMG A GUN! WORSE YET, AN ASSAULT RIFLE! WORSE YET, A COP KILLER BULLET BABY KILLING ASSAULT RIFLE THAT WORSHIPS SATAN!
I admit it’s silly to be discussing this issue in this thread, but those on the other side keep defending the lie. Why not just dismiss it and move on with whatever point you have to make about generally the idea of people going to protests armed?
I don’t think people here are all that receptive to that kind of thing, actually. If it’s a term they grew up with, they’re fine with it, but if it’s new, people will usually object. Or haven’t you noticed how many people gripe about anti-Semitic meaning anti-Jewish?
It matters to the point that “assault rifle” sounds scarier, or in some people’s minds is intended to sound scarier.
I’ve never made any such claim, however, since I’ve seen plenty of dishonesty on both sides.
Yes, it is, and it’s poorly defined, and that’s how politics works on these issues.
I was saying it’s useless in terms of understanding what the guns are, what they do, or why this particular group of weapons deemed “assault weapons” is different from other types.
Oh dear fucking lord. Mods, can we please get a sticky placed in all forums “An assault rifle is a very specific thing” so that Argent Towers can save some electrons. Granted, his post-per-day count will fall through the floor, but at least we won’t have every.fucking.thread. that *mentions *assault rifles suffer from the reflexive diatribe. I’m too lazy to search, but I’m sure there have been multiple Cafe threads that got derailed because what someone called a salt shaker wasn’t so because the holes in the top weren’t standard gauge.
Argent, every other post of yours is worth reading closely. The first fifty whatis/isn’t an assault rifle posts (er, that’s per thread, not across the whole board) were worth reading, and were finely detailed with accurate information on the semantics of the issue. But dear lord. As soon as someone posted “assault rifle” in the thread, thousands of Doper eyes started rolling with the surety that any second, here comes ol’ Argent with his screed. Get the fuck over it. It’s way over the top, repetitive, and clothes you as a gun nut. There are plenty of people on the board who are doing much more to bolster the Second Amendment and fight ignorance without turning themselves into a one-trick pony.
Again, every other post of yours is worth reading, but this shit is fucking old. Go post a “Ask the guy who knows what an assault rifle is” thread (and find out how many people say ‘no shit’ with a link to one of your posts) and simply link there whenever someone mentions it.
What the fuck are you talking about?
Marley is on the money here. He at least understands the trickery that’s going on. Skald the Rhymer and Hippy Hollow are two others that I can think of who generally lean left but are always on the side of facts and logic rather than emotion when it comes to the gun debates. Johnny L.A. is also left-leaning and he too will denounce the bullshit tactics of the anti-gun crowd. There are probably lots of others that I’m leaving out. The issue of guns doesn’t need to be about right-wing or left-wing, which is something I wish more people would understand.