Not having been to NYC more than to change planes or trains I’m not that familiar with its landscape. Articles often make distinction though in whether somebody (a celebrity or politician or whoever) lives on the Upper East Side or the Lower East Side. Both seem to have multimillion dollar luxury apartments available, but then my understanding is that there are buildings in Harlem and the Bronx that were once slums have been gentrified to include luxury units.
Is there a major difference in terms of price and desirability in Upper and Lower?
For that matter, what would be the least desirable part of Manhattan? Or the most desirable part of NYC outside of Manhattan?
Or feel free to discuss NYC real estate/geography in general.
The Upper and Lower East Sides are nowhere near each other. The LES is south of Houston St. The UES, arguably starts around 80th st.
The LES used to be an immigrant slum that only in the last 10 years has become a haven for hipsters. It is still a bit grubby in parts, in that “look, ma, I’m slumming it” way that isn’t actually slummy at all.
The UES is where rich people who have always been rich live and have always lived. It is one of few NYC neighborhoods that has never been a dangerous neighborhood.
The neighborhoods have a totally different “feel” and a person who lived in one would probably disdain the other. For example, while most apartments in the UES are “doorman buildings” (manned round the clock by a doorman who calls you cabs, helps you carry things inside, etc) its much too hopelessly bourgeoise for the LES.
The most desirable neighborhood outside of Manhattan is probably Brooklyn Heights, possibly Park Slope, both in Brooklyn.
The Upper East Side is a much richer area than the Lower East Side, although I think the Upper West Side is considered even wealthier. There are some expensive condo buildings in the Lower East Side, but you didn’t see much of that in that area until the last few years.
There’s Upper East Side and there’s Upper East Side. The really expensive parts are the areas closer to the park - Madison, Park and of course, 5th Ave. Once you get past Lex prices get a bit more reasonable, in New York terms.
The Lower East Side is still cheaper, but not if you include the East Village, which has a massive trendiness markup. An apartment near Cooper Square can be significantly more expensive than something comparable 60-70 blocks uptown.
As everyone has mentioned, they are nowhere near each other, being seperated by 70 blocks or so. The Lower East Side, though gentrifying and hipster central, is nowhere close to arriving. For one thing, there are extensive housing projects on the edges that aren’t going anywhere and are crammed with desperately poor people. You can clean up the Bowery, but the slums are permanent until NYC finds somewhere else for those people to live.
As for your question about neighborhoods, it’s difficult to pinpoint least desirable without a couple of qualifications. Are you talking about least desirable neighborhood as a whole or where on the island of Manhattan is the absolute worst place to have an apartment/house?
Spanish Harlem is huge, so there are plenty of decent places located in it, but taken as a whole, it’s pretty undesirable. Something like 25% of its residents are on housing assistance. I’m not too familiar with the neighborhoods at the far north end of Manhattan (few people realize Manhattan goes up to 220th Street!) but they’re far away and not very nice. I think Fort George or Inwood would have to be on an undesirable shortlist. Lower East Side by the housing projects would be right there too.
Most desirable (i.e. $$$) place in Brooklyn is Brooklyn Heights. Queens is probably Forest Hills.
Contrary to popular belief, the Upper East side is actually one of the cheapest neighborhoods in Manhattan, as long as you stick to non-doorman buildings which predominate east of 3rd Ave. Some people call this Yorkville, but it’s really just a sub-section of the UES.
96th St. used to be the dividing line between the wealthy and the poor. I seem to remember a NY Times story from about 14 years ago that claimed a huge difference in per capita income just between residents on the north side of 96th and the south side of 96th. But from what I hear it’s in the midst of urban renewal.
The least desirable parts of Manhattan are probably Washington Heights (the very tip of Manhattan on the west side) and Spanish Harlem. The most desirable part of NYC outside of Manhattan is likely (in descending order) the DUMBO, Downtown Brooklyn, Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope swath that runs from the Brooklyn Bridge to the tip of Prospect Park. But that all depends on personality. Hipsters like Williamsburg, Greenpoint and Bushwick.
If you’re on the upper east side, you’re never more than a hop skip and a jump (<1 mile) from Central Park, which acts as a relief of sorts. Park Avenue allows no commercial traffic or buses (not even stops for the cross-towns on the corners of Park) above Grand Central Station (roughly). There’s very little new construction (besides apartment interiors). Like Alessan said, Lexington and east is a bit more ‘normal’. Some big boxes (Best Buy, Staples, Barnes and Noble) have moved in on 86th street, which is one of the main shopping areas. While 5th Ave to Lex has the museum mile, mansions from the robber baron days, and big old apartment buildings with courtyards and whatnot, the archicture east of Lex runs from vaguely interesting to mundane and utilitarian. A bunch of new buildings went up starting around 5 years ago but new construction seems to have tapered off. Lots of families in the area, stuffing themselves into apartments any which way they can. Not very hip, but not a bad place to raise kids, either. My old bandmate called it the suburbs of Manhattan.
The upper west side I think is more entertainment-oriented since the Broadway Theaters, Lincoln Center, the TV networks, and whatever else (whatever’s left of the recording industry I guess) are mainly west of 5th. Apparently Inwood, which is at the very northern tip of Manhattan (and along the A train), is absorbing a lot of entertainment types that have been priced out of the upper west side and it’s becoming more desirable.
I lived in a very cheap non-doorman building on 82nd and York (Yorkville, as Crawlspace noted above.) Riverdale, in the Bronx is a desirable neighborhood as well, although it’s practically a suburb.
Really? From what I’ve heard, Inwood, while it’s got its share of problems is a fairly nice mixed income neighborhood, and one of few decent areas left in Manhattan where working and middle class folks can afford to live.
You have to remember that, when it comes to places like Inwood and even Washington Heights, your knowledge is probably as good as, or perhaps better than, that of many Manhattanites.
I know plenty of people who live in Manhattan who are about as likely as a resident of Kuala Lumpur to make a trip to Inwood or Washington Heights. Unfortunately, these New Yorkers often also have in their heads a picture of upper Manhattan that is rooted in the 1980s, and filled with a level of crime and violence that is completely unreflective of current reality.
No, that’s not really accurate. It’s not that easy to delineate. The areas are too large to fit a neat example like that. The 20s, in Gramercy Park are very nice. The 20s in Chelsea are hit or miss. The 30s and 40s are very commercial.