Ah, yes, that was one thing that was never offered at our relatives’ homes, alcohol. (And they weren’t Muslim. Alcohol is not forbidden to Hindus, but when I was growing up, it was not part of “polite” middle-class Bengali culture.)
For a lot of European cultures, that’s probably in the line of bad hosting.
You’d definitely be offered tea, though.
Well, I like tea a lot more than I like booze, but there aren’t a lot of calories in it.
I was not hungry after eating at my friend’s house, as I ate a generous portion of black-pepper-with-other-additions. I guess I did grow up in a culture where it’s polite to eat your host’s food. And as a picky eater, I navigate that carefully.
Bengalis drink tea with full-fat milk and sugar, and tea is never offered by itself. It comes with biscuits (cookies) and sweets.
In fact, if you ask for just a glass of water, it will also come with a plate of sweets.
Did she at least make a good chocolate moose?
Oh, I have eaten in the house of a Bengali. But she’s basically American, and she served me sauteed kale. And not much else. Like, not even a side of rice. I was hungry. I really don’t care for kale.
But I was an unexpected addition, and I appreciated her hospitality, even if I didn’t appreciate the food aspect of it.
(seriously… kale?.. I find it hard to fathom that people eat kale and consider it a meal. But the rest of the people ate enthusiastically and seemed satisfied at the end of the meal)
Bengali literature includes humorous stories about cheapskates who serve meager portions when there are guests present and the hosts all pretend to be stuffed.
But, yes, a Bengali-American wouldn’t necessarily follow all those cultural points.
I’m Ashkenazi; but I’m not even sure where I picked that up, and I’ve certainly run into it elsewhere. I’ve heard and read references in quite a few places over 70 years to refusing to eat/drink in somebody’s house as an insult; often in a fashion that appeared to take it for granted that of course people would know why this was an insult. No cites possible for conversations I heard, and no time to hunt up recollections of the written ones.
Different people, IME, eat drastically different amounts. And different families’ ideas of “enough” will often vary.
Not really related to issues of politeness with guests, but: before covid I routinely went to a multi-day farm conference that, every few years, moved to different venues. The first year at a new venue, there was never enough food – people late in the line would get something to eat, but clearly not the variety or particular items that those seated earlier had, and sometimes things that appeared to have been cooked in a hurry at the last minute as they realized they were running out. The venues were used to serving conferences of office workers, and had planned accordingly. – I’ve heard that construction workers, and I’d presume groups of others doing active physical work, have the same problem.
By the second or third year in a particular venue, they’d generally figured out what they were in for when they saw us coming up on their schedule, and there’d be plenty. Until the next time we moved somewhere else . . .
Also, of course, getting back to the private household level, some peoples’ idea of “enough” when guests are expected is ‘enough so there will be lots left over’, while others’ is ‘enough to get everybody full but we don’t want to deal with leftovers.’ The latter version is a lot more likely to result in misjudgement. The former, of course, works best with people who like eating leftovers, as otherwise it’s wasteful.
Absolutely people eat different amounts - but
sounds like the brother was saying they didn’t serve enough to satisfy anyone, and I guess I was trying to clarify if that’s what he meant or if it just wasn’t enough to satisfy him. I mean, I know people who eat 16 oz ( or more) steaks, but I wouldn’t say that someone who served 8 oz steaks didn’t have enough food because a 16 oz person wasn’t satisfied.
This can be an issue in the Hindu caste system. Refusing to eat or drink–or refusing to serve someone–can be taken as an expression of caste prejudice.
I’ve heard stories of people’s grandmothers who would dispose of any dishware or glasses that had been used by a person of insufficient caste status. And, yes, there were people who would feel contaminated by the shadow of a low caste person.
Thanks. That’s good to know for reference, lest I unintentionally offend someone. I’ve been in such households, but I’m a goy, so perhaps a wide berth was afforded to me.
Certainly possible; or maybe over 70 years and in different parts of the community mores have changed. And I wasn’t really raised in an Ashkenazi community; while certainly some (not all) of my parents’ friends and most (not all the inlaws etc) of my family were, I was raised in a place with few other Jews by parents who were mostly trying their best to assimilate us.
I think I may see cultural differences more easily than many people do because I was raised and have lived on the edges of multiple cultures while not quite part of any of them.
Fast addition:
While many practicing Jews aren’t as strict about it and may only avoid pork, shellfish, and mixing meat and dairy: anybody keeping really strict kosher probably can’t eat anything in the house of somebody who isn’t, because even if the food would otherwise be kosher, the dishes aren’t, as they may have previously held something non-kosher. For people who aren’t being as strict, ordinary washing is enough; but for the really strict, it isn’t – so they’re not intending any insult if they refuse even water.
Heh - German/Polish grandmother. Sunday dinner at her house was always a dance - always more food then you needed (but delicious so you’d eat a lot), and you had to basically eat everything she cooked to ensure good weather (not sure where that superstition came from). But if everything was eaten then she’d worry she hadn’t made enough and maybe people were still hungry.
Note that this mostly applied to sides (potatoes, stuffing/dressing, 2-3 types of vegetables, etc). Left over meat from (pick at least 2) the turkey, ham, roast beef, or pork roast were allowable because those would be used for supper later.
As an aside, looking at what I wrote: why is it “roast beef” but “pork roast”? Or maybe that’s just my family. I’ve seen/used them flipped - but they generally feel wrong when I do.
I remember when I was a kid a friend’s mom literally confronted my mom in a grocery store over “Not feeding her child” because once he slept over and in the morning we just ate cereal before he went home because in our household cereal or oatmeal was what we ate in the morning and had a much heavier lunch.
This was also the same kid who complained the one time we took him to a movie theater because his parents always bought him his own soda and his own popcorn and we were the “Smuggle a box of candy into the theater” types.
I’ve actually experienced this though somewhat recently. Went over to a friends house to watch an all day marathon of sports on Sunday. I ate breakfast and went over to his house. I noticed he didn’t eat anything for lunch and it was 7pm before I asked him “Hey do you have anything to eat I assumed you’d have something or we’d order in for dinner”. Nope dude was literally so cheap he was willing to starve himself over helping to pay for a pizza or something. I just left after that if he literally expected me to buy take-out with him not pitching in.
Hey, you were wearing out his couch and using his electricity for the TV. The least you could do is buy him dinner /s.
I can. I’ve never heard of French toast being treated as a savory food until now. Asking for ketchup for it seems like an utterly bizarre request, akin to asking for mustard on your ice cream. It is, I suppose, as alien to me as sweet French toast was to Acsenray. Reasonable requests should be granted, but a guest asking for an item to completely ruin their meal is not a reasonable request.
Clearly, tastes differ on what constitutes ruining a meal–and in this case there are apparently two completely opposite views–but that’s how I’d see it.
Growing up unless you were specifically asked to stay for lunch (usually arranged by the moms), everyone went home for lunch and agreed to meet up at X place at Y time.
If somebody wants ketchup on their French toast, who am I to say their request is unreasonable? Presumably, they know their own tastes. If someone wants mustard on their ice cream, sure I’ll provide it.
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I mean, as a host, I can ask “are you sure?” like if they want to put ketchup on a steak I just cooked them but, hey, while I may think that’s nutso, have at it if that’s what you want to do with the steak. I’m not here to gatekeep your tastes. I’m not running a three-Michelin star kitchen here as a chef with a big ego who takes offense at a little extra salt being added to their “perfectly sculpted” dish.
If you cooked a meal for someone, spent a lot of time selecting and preparing the ingredients and so on, would you not be at least a tiny bit put out if a guest added something that, from your perspective, completely changed the nature of the meal?
People are being ridiculous if they get offended at a guest adding a pinch of salt to their meal, and should probably relax about ketchup on a steak, too. But at the same time, meals are made with intention. If that intention is violated, I think people have the right to be at least a little bit offended.
The French toast is an interesting example, because there are two incompatible perspectives at play. A polite host, if they fully understood that savory French toast was not only a thing, but the primary way it was eaten in the guest’s experience, should have no problems providing ketchup. It’s the lack of information that made the interaction awkward.
No. And I cook every day for people (in my house, not professionally.) Plus we’re talking about French freaking toast here, not A5 Wagyu cooked perfectly medium rare with a sprinkle of salt and pepper. Like why in blazes would I care if somebody put ketchup on their French toast? It’s not like this is some cherished family recipe handed down from great-grandma and is The Greatest French Toast ever, pride of the family. And even if it is, so the heck what? I think cooking steak past medium rare is barbarous, but I’ve done it for guests – even when it was $50/lb steak I was serving. My job is to make the guest feel comfortable and welcome at my house, not judge them for their culinary choices. And it does not reflect on me, or my cooking, if they want to jazz up the dish to their liking. Why should I be offended by any of this? At all?