Obama attempts to "modify" the BIG THREE entitlements, I will remove his 2012 sticker from my Jeep!

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid have been Democratic ideals since 1932, and President Obama is willing to play poker with their future? As a lifelong Dem I have stopped contributing to the party, and I am on record that I could be “too busy” on election day 2012 to vote at all!

These clowns in Washington have nice cushy jobs that require little effort. Neither party is doing their job. SENIOR CITIZENS, VETERANS, AND THE DISABLED ARE BE SCARED TO DEATH THAT THEIR CHECKS MAY NOT ARRIVE AUGUST 3.

Isn’t there something in the Declaration of Independence about “altering or abolishing” our Government if we are unhappy? Better yet, maybe a Democratic Party primary fight could make Hillary Clinton president in 2012! Mr. President the American people are not without options. Shape up. Be a Democrat.

First, the Declaration of Independence has, literally, zero legal authority.

It is a neat document and is useful in determining the mindset of that time but it has no power of law at all.

I agree that Obama is a huge disappointment. Republicans have moved so far right that Obama’s chasing them has also moved so far right of center (because the “center” has moved) to make his credentials as a liberal laughable.

I really wish Obama would face a credible primary challenger. Obama talks a good talk. We need someone to point out that Obama’s rhetoric is so much bullshit. I grant that politics is the art of compromise but the Capitulator-in-Chief is so astoundingly bad at this job that I do not think he should be allowed to continue in that job.

Sadly, given the people the republicans have fielded (e.g. Michele Bachmann) as a voter I am screwed. I hate what Obama has done but I am scared to think what the likes of Bachmann or the other Republican candidates would do.

Hence I wish someone would primary Obama.

Could someone running from Obama’s left defeat Bachmann or Palin? 10 years down the road the answer to that will be a solid, obvious “yes” (because the hardcore conservative demographics skew old), but today, I have to wonder if it’s worth the risk.

Has a sitting President ever lost a primary?
What does the AARP think of him? I believe they represent a large block of voters.

Not unless you count LBJ in '68, who decided to just bow out.

In 1980 Ted Kennedy beat incumbent Jimmy Carter in 10 of the 34 primary elections. Carter had the nomination sewed up with 60% of the delegates by the time the Democratic convention began, but Kennedy still refused to withdraw.

Chester Arthur, Millar Fillmore, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce and John Tyler all sought to run for second terms but lost renomination by their parties.

Of course, there were no primaries then.

I wouldn’t go as far as not voting for Obama, but I agree that he’s being somewhat of a pansy with his negotiations with the Republicans.

I don’t like how raising the debt limit is being treated as a legitimate sacrifice by the Republicans. Meanwhile, tax increases are not even being discussed because Obama is concerned about what Boehner can sell to his caucus.

I’m glad both the Democratic President and the Republican Speaker of the House are worried about the Republican Caucus, but who is supposed to be concerned about the Democratic Caucus?

I think that Obama should veto anything that ties raising the debt limit to spending cuts with no revenue increases. If the voters allow such childish actions from legislators, then we are all beyond screwed, whether we cave to their demands or not.

If things start to look pretty bad because of the default, then Obama can always raise the debt ceiling on his own.

Is there a debate here? Does the OP contain anything beyond uncited invective, ALL CAPS, and colored text?

I hear you.

I would still like to see a credible primary challenger to Obama. My main reason is to have someone, win or lose, make Obama accountable and call him out on his bullshit.


Similar reasoning – that the President simply has inherent power to do what needs to be done, much as Lincoln asserted when he suspended habeas corpus – did not have that much traction during the Bush years.

At least around here.

Pehpas he believes himself to be Jed Bartlett.

Seriously? Do you WANT another Republican in the White House? :eek:


I said PRIMARY challenger.

I admit to some waffling in my mind on this.

I am tired of the political calculation of, “I may be bad but the other person is worse.”

I want to vote for someone I like, not for the lesser of two bad choices.

Bottom line I think there is value in Obama being held accountable for his wonderful rhetoric completely mismatching his actions.

Maybe a credible challenger will help to right a badly listing ship in Obama.

Obama has proven to be a pussy, in so many ways. I have never heard of any “negotiation” in which one side is expected to compromise, and the other doesn’t . . . at least not in this country. The Tea Partiers claim they can’t compromise their principles, but don’t Liberals have principles too? (Yes, sadly, that’s a rhetorical question.)

This is not the same thing.

If there is no debt compromise the president is literally in an impossible position. He has a mandate from congress and the constitution to pay our debt and he is limited by congress to be able to pay that debt.

This is not the president grabbing power. This is the president in a Catch-22. He has two choices, neither of which are “legal”.

What would you do in that situation?

Also, in 1976, Reagan knocked off Ford in a number of primaries even though Ford still got the GOP nomination (albeit narrowly).

Isn’t it a little too late to mount a primary challenge?

The GOP candidates have been campaigning and fund raising for almost a year now. Any Democrat trying to start his campaign now would get crushed by Obama in fundraising.

Of course, Social Security was signed into law in 1935, Medicare and Medicaid in 1965.

I heard you. Seriously man…do you really think that if someone unseated Obama in the primary that this person (presumably a left wing candidate who is able to charge up your base) is going to then go on to defeat a Republican?? Do you think that the US center is going to go for some candidate that unseats Obama to such an extent that this person will then go on to win a general election? Really? Truly?

I have to admit that watching the left destroy Obama is, frankly, like watching a bus drive off a cliff. It’s horrible to watch, and there is nothing I can do, but I can’t look away.

I’ll tell you this…if the left manages to sink Obama in the next election (something that, based on threads like this has gone from ‘can’t possibly happen…they can’t be this stupid’ to ‘good grief…they might actually do this :eek:’ in my mind) I promise that when the Republicans win it will be Gore/Nadir all over again. For 8 more years. And I’d laugh and taunt you, but I’ll be sitting there in shock, shaking my head and wondering how both extremes in this country have brought us to this, and how much longer the country can possibly last at this rate.

And I’m sick unto death with extremists who believe that if their candidate doesn’t do everything they have on their little wish list then that guy is a sell out, and that what is clearly needed is a more radical person…who won’t get elected except in the fantasies of the faithful (of either wing), and who, even if they did, would get NOTHING accomplished, because…Jebus Crikes!..this isn’t a fucking dictatorship and you can’t just do whatever you like, but instead have to govern from some sort of consensus, where the OTHER side is going to require compromise or they will dig in their heels and absolutely nothing will get accomplished.

Good grief…of COURSE you have to vote for the person who is less bad, because you will never, ever get a candidate who will both tell you what you want to hear AND be able to win in a general election…AND be able to actually push through your freaking wish list. What you have to hope for is a candidate who will be able to win the primary and get through the wings hurdles by telling you what you want to hear, but also be able to convince the center that s/he isn’t a totally loony, and then, having actually managed to get elected will be able to actually get something accomplished, which will require them to actually work with both sides. Instead of being able to just dictate what they want by fiat without opposition, because, again, this isn’t a freaking dictatorship and there will ALWAYS be an opposition.

And do you believe that the person you like will have a shot at getting elected in a general election? And, having gotten elected, how will your dream president act? Will s/he just do what they want, without compromise? Will they simply tell all and sundry what they want, with the hopeful expectation that it will just magically happen? :smack:…:smack::smack::smack:

Here’s the thing…I hear you. I’d like to vote for someone who I actually like, and who believes similar things to what I believe, and will do things I think would be beneficial to the country. Obama isn’t my ideal candidate, obviously. I’d like a more libertarian type candidate, one who is much more economically conservative and yet emphasizes a strong American space program and is strong on defense. Obama isn’t really any of those things. Yet, I voted for him…and will vote for him again next election, assuming he manages to get through the bloodletting of the primaries and the cannibalism of his own party (I have no say in that, since I’m registered as an Independent, and can’t vote in the primaries here for either party). Why? Because of the potential candidates that actually could get elected, I think he’s the best choice. He’s smart, he’s intelligent, and he realizes that he’s not a God Emperor, able to dictate his will and simply have it done because he willed it. He seems to know that more than he did when he was campaigning the last time, but then I had faith that anyone as smart as Obama would figure it out rather quickly.

Certainly. All candidates should be held accountable for their promises and rhetoric. By all means, hold him accountable for what he promised. Me, I took much of what he was saying on the campaign trail with the same hefty grain of salt I take all political speeches, and tried to look at the man behind the rhetoric…and put what he was saying into the context of our actual political system and the current political environment. I saw two possibilities. Obama could be another Clinton, another President I thought highly of…or he could be another Carter.

Depends. If you want him to tell you what you want to hear, I’d say you’ll get that regardless during the primary, credible challenger or no. Your credible challenger is going to tell you a lot of what you want to hear too. Sadly, whether it’s Obama or your credible challenger that gets elected, they probably won’t DO all that stuff they tell you about. Why? Well, because there is that opposition party out there. And, even more sadly, there are a lot of moderate Democrats out there too, who are only going to go so far in what they will stamp their names on. Because, you know, this isn’t a dictatorship…it’s a democracy. And the left wing, just like the right wing, only has so much traction with the centrists.
Ah well, rants over…vote for who you like. If the left wing sinks Obama then I hope you guys are happy with how things work out. Hopefully we’ll get someone more like Romney instead of someone like Palin…and hopefully the Dems will do better in the next House and Senate election cycle to balance things out and tie up the government.