Plagiarism? Damn perverts. First communism. Then homosexuality. Now plagiarism. It’s sick.
[QUOTE=Frostillicus]
It is also helpful to have a President of the Senate who does not drop f-bombs on US Senators.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/b/2004/06/25/cheney-to-leahy-go-fk-yourself.htm
[/QUOTE]
How about one who says that the POTUS is spouting “bullshit”?
You may have the wrong guy if you are looking forward a VP of gentle talk.
[QUOTE=Leaper]
If there’s immediate risk to this VP choice, it’s that it’ll make Clinton supporters even angrier.
Will it be a chaotic, campaign-demolishing convention? We’ll see…
[/QUOTE]
Your cite though is not specifically that the Biden choice, “this VP choice” will make those Clinton supporters angrier, so much as the perception that Sen. Clinton was not even seriously vetted, let alone chosen, is upsetting them.
Biden is as acceptable of a choice as any non-Clinton choice could be. But would it have been useful to have made more of a show of vetting Clinton? Probably.
I think it’s unfair to criticize Biden for being unhinged. Think about it. He’s won seven elections, six of which were for senate. Also he’s never lost an election exept for president. When he goes out there and runs for senator or president, it’s only Joe Biden on the line. He knows his senate seat is safe, so who cares what happens? But since he’s working for Barack, I think the stakes are much higher and he will be extra careful to not screw up. I’d be willing to bet that Barack won’t lose because of some sort of Biden screwup and I’d be willing to give good odds.
[QUOTE=E. Thorp]
I’m not sure Sam Stone’s concern about the Obama brand is warranted.
[/QUOTE]
His concerns never are. Any action taken by any prominent Democrat at any time is most likely going to backfire and blow up in the faces - Sam is only showing due concern and trying to keep them from doing something stupid because he’s just such a nice and totally disinterested party.
-Joe
I’ve thought about it a bit more and I now think this isn’t a bad move for Obama. In fact, I wonder if Bill Clinton might have pushed Biden to the front.
Clinton got elected in 1992 and then proceeded to make a series of mistakes during his first two years. He had a Democratic House and Senate and still had problems getting his agenda passed. Everyone remembers the debacle of the health care bill, but don’t forget about passing the budget by one vote.
Obama has only been in the Senate for a short time and doesn’t have a long list of favors to call in. Biden does. Biden has also chaired the judiciary committee during the Thomas and Bork hearings. John Paul Stevens will probably resign next year and the Republicans are going to go all out against an Obama nominee. In fact, Obama could appoint 2 or 3 judges, depending on the health of some of the older members.
So, all in all, it was a good choice.
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe]
I think it’s unfair to criticize Biden for being unhinged. Think about it. He’s won seven elections, six of which were for senate.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, don’t lose sight of the axiom: As Deleware goes, so goes the …
nevermind.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Well, it depends on the circumstances. I don’t recall the specifics of Cheney’s f-bomb, but I don’t doubt that there are times when some Senators need to be told to fuck off.
[/QUOTE]
IIRC, Cheney had said some Senator (Patrick Leahy?) was a bad Catholic for supporting abortion rights. When the Senator said that was uncalled for, Dick responded with his memorable, “Fuck off.”
Cheney is an asshole.
[QUOTE=DSeid]
How about one who says that the POTUS is spouting “bullshit”?
[/QUOTE]
Well, he was talking about George W. Bush, so I believe it was a perfectly factual observation…
Points well made that Biden’s expletive and Cheney’s were indeed different in terms of context and intent. But as to letting the occasional expletive slip - agreed, that in and of itself is part of the package of any one known for their bluntness and willingness to attack back.
Obama needs that on his team to offset his trying to parse his words so damn cautiously. It just can’t veer into material that Obama will need to renounce, or repudiate, or denounce, or, or, or … ah fuck it.
[QUOTE=Atomicktom]
IIRC, Cheney had said some Senator (Patrick Leahy?) was a bad Catholic for supporting abortion rights. When the Senator said that was uncalled for, Dick responded with his memorable, “Fuck off.”
[/quote]
That’s the problem with going by memory-- it isn’t very good.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
I’m just saying there’s a risk. Biden is fully capable of nailing McCain to the wall if he gets the chance, without going too far. As Diogenes says, Biden’s good at the sarcastic quip or a clever rejoinder, without seeming mean-spirited. But sometimes he does go too far. He’s just got to be careful. McCain has a lot of respect with the American people, even if they don’t vote for him. But a lot of people will get their backs up if they feel like he’s being disrespected.
[/QUOTE]
In this vein, I’m surprised no one has mentioned what I thought was the best line of Biden’s speech: “these times require more than a good soldier, they require a wise leader.” IMO, that’s pure political gold. It acknowledges and praises McCain’s military service, while simultaneously minimizing it in favor of Obama. But it’s completely respectful. I think it’s a devastating line (almost as good as “a noun, a verb, and 9/11”) and I hope he repeats it in every speech he makes.
“Plain spoken” it wasn’t. As John Mace said, Cheney was being questioned about the connections between his corporate and political interests and he suddenly used some profanity. Some have speculated it was planned. Cheney doesn’t normally swear in public but by doing so at that moment, he diverted attention away from Haliburton.
[QUOTE=ShadowFacts]
In this vein, I’m surprised no one has mentioned what I thought was the best line of Biden’s speech: “these times require more than a good soldier, they require a wise leader.” IMO, that’s pure political gold. It acknowledges and praises McCain’s military service, while simultaneously minimizing it in favor of Obama. But it’s completely respectful. I think it’s a devastating line (almost as good as “a noun, a verb, and 9/11”) and I hope he repeats it in every speech he makes.
[/QUOTE]
I loved Biden’s line about Guliani in the Democrat debate: “His sentences contain three words: A noun, a verb, and 9/11”.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
I loved Biden’s line about Guliani in the Democrat debate: “His sentences contain three words: A noun, a verb, and 9/11”.
[/QUOTE]
Considering how much air time that line has been getting the past couple of days and probably will be the next few, Guliani can’t be any too thrilled in his heart of hearts about this nomination. It’s breaking my heart.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
I loved Biden’s line about Guliani in the Democrat debate: “His sentences contain three words: A noun, a verb, and 9/11”.
[/QUOTE]
How long before McCain’s side talks about “A noun, a verb, and CHANGE”?
[QUOTE=John Mace]
How long before McCain’s side talks about “A noun, a verb, and CHANGE”?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think that would work. McCain has already run ads attacking Obama’s policies.
With Biden’s crap record on civil liberties and technology issues, it looks like I’m going to be casting a protest vote for Barr.
[QUOTE=Sam Stone]
The Liberal I knew a few years ago wouldn’t have taken a cheap shot like that, and if anyone else had, would have been the first to point out that Republicans tend to be better educated than Democrats.
[/QUOTE]
Talk about cheap shots.
[QUOTE=Steve MB]
With Biden’s crap record on civil liberties and technology issues, it looks like I’m going to be casting a protest vote for Barr.
[/QUOTE]
Go to town, and enjoy your civil liberties under McCain.