We’re not talking about Israel, we’re talking about a brand new hypothetical state.
Where did you hear that?
They certainly don’t. They reject all sorts of people who would have been considered Jews by Hitler and executed.
For example they reject members of the Jews for Jesus and people who came from Jewidh families who’d converted to non-Jewish religions.
Moreover they don’t reject the Kaarite Jews who Hitler left alone.
What makes you think such a hypothetical state than a hypothetical united Pakistan and India?
Moreover, have you ever visited the country or talked to any Palestinians or Israelis because I’ve never met any who were remotely interested in a state like you’re suggesting.
Who’ve you met from there who wanted such a state and though it was feasible?
From the State of Israel:
The law explicitly applies to anyone who has a Jewish father or grandfather. Suck on that. I’m eligible for Israeli citizenship. I’m not a member of any other religion and never have been.
Why does this upset you so much?
You’ll have to clean up the grammar on this. I don’t understand what you;re asking.
No, to the first question (though I’d really, really like to), and of course to the second. The fact that they don’t want a one state solution is the PROBLEM. Both sides need to grow up.
Yes, I did want to convert before I knew I was ‘halachacly’ (I don’t even know how to transliterate that) Jewish. In the two year process, I was told that our family was Jewish, but converted ‘out’. I didn’t really register it and continued on with my conversion. It didn’t do me any harm. My beliefs in god changed back and forth but were always rooted in humanistic ideals.
A year or so ago I had official (as opposed to some anecdotal and then supporting) ‘evidence’ that was valid for the most conservative bet din. Did I care to submit it?
nope.
Do you understand how important it is for Jews to be able to practice religion freely?
The Orthodox in Israel may control too much right now (and it wasn’t always that way), but they aren’t a dictatorship. The relationship in Israel is similar to that of the oil lobby with Congress. What Jews do in matters of Jewish law is of their concern and not yours.
Maybe you don’t find a value in the things that I do, but please don’t be so blatantly disrespectful.
Don’t attack me because I don’t fit your racial categories.
Finally, even Cecil tackled the atheist Jew q.
Finally, even if I’m not Jewish enough for you, I’m still Jewish enough - or guilty enough by association - that I can be attacked for my personal beliefs in Zionism, Judaism, theology, or whatever thought process I have that is connected to Judaism.
:dubious:
You’re mistaking ethnocentrism, nationalism, geography, religious bias, inter-religious (civil) conflicting ideologies and a whole host of things that have nothing to do with race. (Not that race is sigh a logical thing.)
There is a reason why many Jews reject that notion, and you’ve done a pretty good job of outlining that.
They are discriminated against in Israel because they are not Israelis and Israel is at war with Hamas and the PLO. Sometimes it’s outright and sometimes it is a cold war.
If you want to talk about discrimination within its sovereign state, that’s another issue and one I’m happy to talk about. Don’t conflate the two.
You haven’t called religion a superstition?
Attacked deists as irrational?
re: law of return: 1) it was written to reflect the context of the era 2) it has been amended a few times, and 3) it is silly to think that anyone Hitler would have killed has automatic citizenship rights in Israel. It’s actually quite a process to get an oleh certificate. finally, what qualifies you for citizenship in Israel is not the same as you being a Jew. it has to do with the support of a Jewish state, really.
Cut the foul language and visuals of me with a dick in my mouth. It’s seriously offensive.
Except you’d be denied since you don’t support a Zionist state. So…you’re actually not eligible for citizenship. (:
It doesn’t. I don’t consider you Jewish and I don’t give a damn about things that will never happen.
This isn’t appropriate for this forum- or any adult discussion. Tone it down.
Neither side wants one state. Why is that a problem? Isn’t it your problem since you’re trying to project your ideology on others?
Do you want to be part of the same country as Mexico? France? Iran? Is that a problem? Do you support New World Order and some kind of international body of law that dictates your private life?
I’m not trying to stop them. This is a totally pointless question. You should probably tell that the the right wing Israeli Orthodoxy, though.
I’m not trying to interfere in Jewish law, so this is a complete red herring.
- I haven’t disrespected Jewish practice.
- The right to free practice doesn’t mean you’re entitled to respect.
I’m so sick of this garbage. Please quit it.
Those are not attacks on religion.
It makes me Jewish enough for Hitler. Who the hell are you to say I’m not a Jew?
Ok, first of all wikipedia is not a reliable source.
Second, people who practice a religion other than Judaism, regardless if they were of Jewish descent are rejected.
Your own source declares
People who are of Jewish descent who’ve converted to Christianity would be rejected even though they would be classified as Jews under the Nuremberg racial laws.
I never said that you didn’t nor, after you revealed that your biological father was of Jewish descent, did I think you didn’t. Nor for that matter does that mean that I think qualifying as a Jew by the Israeli Right of Return makes one a Jew. My own personal belief is that anyone who honestly(stress the honestly) considers themself a Jew is one regardless of what anyone else said, but that’s just me.
I’m not upset. You’d know if I was.
What do you think I’m upset about?
That you claim you qualify for Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return?
Why would that bother me? I’m not Jewish, a Zionist or even a huge fan of Israel, I just get annoyed by the ignorance so many show on the subject and how much they insult people on both sides by pontificating on subjects they know nothing about.
What’s with the weird sexual comments. You’ve made homophobic remarks on multiple occasions before and now you’re apparently asking another man to give you a blow job.
Such comments don’t bother me, though they lead me to wonder if you’re upset about something.
Is there a reason you’re so focused on men have sex with other men or have you been experiencing sexual frustration?
If so, there are other solutions than insulting people you’ve never met on the internet and ones that most people find more pleasurable.
This is obnoxious. Knock it off.
Apologies.
What makes you think such a hypothetical state is more plausible than a hypothetical united Pakistan and India?
Are the Indians and the Pakistanis immature because they don’t want a “one-state solution” to their conflict?
Moreover, a professor of mine who was African-American once claimed few things pissed him off more than when he’d hear white people who knew nothing about black history or culture claimed they knew better than black people what was best for them and that black people need to “grow up” or words to that effect.
I can assure you that Palestinians and Israelis have similar feelings towards westerners who’ve never been to the region and have limited knowledge of it who claim that they know what best for the ignorant people of that region.
As the saying goes, that’s mighty white of you.
The Law of Return came up again recently when a girl who had converted to Christianity immigrated and lied on her paperwork…she came to Israel with her husband as ‘messianic’ Jews.
They were going to deport her. The High Court said she could stay. I personally objected to that on an ideological level because the High Court legislates too much. So now the Knesset will deal with it. I expect the Law of Return to be amended again.
As a very personal and ethical consideration (which has no bearing on the law) I think that the girl should’ve been allowed to stay - though Israel is within every right to revoke citizenship of anyone who lies on their application.
Israel will not take messianic jews who are not halachakly Jewish.
again, getting that oleh certificate is harder than it looks.
I was responding to comments he made to me.
I certainly didn’t respond remotely as forcefully as many if not most would have and merely asked him some questions as to where his hostility and anger came from.
I didn’t say I thought it was plausible. I said I didn’t understand why there would be anything theoretically wrong with it. None of the resistance seems rational to me. There are just two sides who are equally convinced that an invisible sky god gave them the same land, and both sides have a laundry list of reasons why the other side is evil and untrustworthy. Both sides need to grow up.
Not for me. I’ve never been a Christian.
That was my point, Dio. It is something for Israelis to decide – not you.
You object to it but you have nothing to do with it.
I think that calling Jewish practice irrational, hypocritical, superstitious, and a variant of other memes is disrespectful.
:dubious:
And I am sure you would’ve objected.
Because you’re…not? You don’t identify, you don’t practice, you don’t know…why would I call you a Jew? There aren’t many Jews that would identify you as such.
Hitler was not the end all be all to the Who is a Jew? question.
You wouldn’t be allowed to immigrate, Dio. Not unless you lied.