Please grow a fucking backbone and don’t compromise on the tax cut expiration. Compromise would be nice, but since they are refusing to reasonably do so, fuck them. Extended cuts for the rich will only hurt the country. Just let the goddamned taxes go back up and take the heat for it. I’m sure it can be spun to your advantage when it’s pointed out that the GOP is holding unemployment hostage. I’m in complete agreement with Krugman on this one. Just fuck those motherfuckers. :mad:
Much as I agree with your point, Obama and the Democrats are appallingly bad at spin doctoring even when the truth is on their side. I’d like him to hold the line too but I don’t have high hopes for him coming out of this looking good.
Here’s how Obama should spin it:
Look, Bush and the Republicans set up this goofy system where the tax cuts expire on 12/31/2010. If they wanted to make them permanent, then they should’ve made them permanent. Now they’re hypocritically saying that they must be extended. They set up the system where they expire, so I see no reason to rescue them from their own failed plan.
QED.
I am so mad I can hardly see straight. How is Obama going to deal with an external threat when he can’t even stand up to to the Pubs? He needs to say fuck you to these idiots. The Democrats passed a tax cut for every single American taxpayer, and the pubs are going to filibuster it. If you can’t spin that, then you don’t deserve your position.
We face a problem where spending is too high and revenue is too low, so we raise spending and cut revenue? Fuck Obama., fuck the Democratic leadership, fuck Republicans, and fuck FOX news. Please do not be offended if I push you out of the lifeboat that we will all need when the economy tanks.
Not even, especially.
When you stick to the truth it limits your options. It’s much easier when you can just make shit up. Once I didn’t prepare for a high school debate and just made up a bunch of quotes. Much easier than trying to do actual research.
Politically speaking, why should he? You are going to vote for him (assuming you are a US citizen) in 2012. So will most of the rest of the SDMB who voted for him in2008, and the demographic it represents (yellow dog Democrats, essentially). There is no difference in the net effect of a vote based on “he is a new kind of politician, and represents real hope for the future” and one based on “at least he isn’t a Republican”. Both tabulate as one vote.
Feel free to complain about what he is doing, but in the world of politics your support can be taken for granted, and Obama will concentrate on the moderates. Will this appeal to them? Who knows?
In the long run, it won’t matter - either Obama and Congress will make the spending cuts necessary to reduce the deficit, in which case this is chicken feed, or they won’t, in which case we are doomed anyway.
Possibly BHO is going to use this as leverage - “I gave up the tax increase, you have to give up an equivalent spending increase”. Or maybe he thinks tax increases are a bad idea during a recovery.
Regards,
Shodan
I think Obama is smarter than me. I’ve managed to forgive him for that, though the smoking hot wife and adoring children still rankle.
But clearly, he must make the lines absolutely apparent, he must not permit ambiguity for exploitation. At this, he has done fairly well, there isn’t much doubt to be offered, who the Pubbies work for, he has made the choice stark. But now what?
What would a good man do? If he believed that the Pubbies would cave, that they wouldn’t, in fact, drive the car over the cliff just for some abstract political point, then he should call their bluff.
But what if he’s wrong? What if they really are that stupid, that fanatical? The consequences are enormous for us all if he made the wrong choice, if he overestimated the patriotism and good will of our enemies. If he expects the Republicans to act in good faith, if he expects them to defy the Tea Party harridans, if he expects them to sacrifice political expend ency for the good of the country, what if he’s wrong?
Oh, dear.
I elected him because I trust his judgment better than the other guy. I don’t think he walks on water, I think he can swim. And I trust him to face an ugly choice, and if he must eat some shit for the good of our country, I expect him to say “Here’s my spoon, here’s my grin, mmmmm-good!”
I would like him to win. But if he thinks he can’t, I’m going to trust his judgment. But, at the very least, he is making the facts stark and plain. The Pubbies will wreck us all if they don’t get more money for those who don’t need it. They’ve made their choice, and declared their loyalty. Lets make damn sure they wear it, wherever and whenever they speak about their “patriotism”.
Have you told the President how you feel?
I have:
The prez has not used the bully pulpit. He should be out talking about how the Repubs are working for the wealthy at the expense of the rest. He should tell the people about the problems that the tax cuts cause and how the debt can not be solved by cutting.
The Dems offered reasonable compromises to the repubs. They keep their filibuster mentality and refuse to budge an inch. They are responsible for the deficit. Yet they want more. What is that about? They know continuing he cuts will jeopardize the country.
Oh please. Excuse me if I refuse to hold my breath waiting for Obama to use anything as leverage. I’m so disappointed in him I could spit. No, I didn’t expect him to push everything he campaigned on, nor did I expect him to get everything he tried to do. But to not even try? To cave so obviously and completely as he’s done on any number of issues? Compromise to Obama means to give the Republicans anything they want. He doesn’t even fight when he’s right, which is ridiculous.
Do you honestly believe this? All of a sudden he’s changed his mind on an issue he’s been railing against for at least 3 years? No. He caved. Once again, he caved, and there’s no bloody excuse for it.
I’ve never seen anything like this crap. Would any Republican concede as much on anything? I’m sorry. I can’t give Obama a pass anymore. When will the bending over to the Republicans end? Does anyone with a brain cell actually believe the Republicans will work with Obama once he caves on the tax cuts? Of course not. Obama will never get anything he wants passed if the Republicans have anything to say about it.
And please don’t throw healthcare back in my face because it is not what any progressive wanted, and neither did Obama; he just felt he needed to pass something, anything, even if it was just a warmed-over Republican plan which, inexplicably, no Republican will admit to, probably as simply another cynical attempt to remove any air of legitimacy to the legislation so they can rally the troops to repeal it.
You’re correct on one thing though; I’m probably going to vote for Obama again, unless he decides not to run for a second term and someone with an actual backbone steps up. Pheh. How likely is that?
I could have dealt with any shortcomings Obama has, but I can’t deal with his spinelessness.
Sorry to quote the whole thing, but I think it’s a good post. My answer: if he’s wrong about the pubbies, well then he’s wrong and so fucking what. The right thing to do is to do what’s best for the country. People are going to take a tax hit, and many can’t afford to take a tax hit, but the majority of people will absorb it.
So the tax cuts expire and the new congress introduces a new bill to give them back to the majority of wage-earners. There are a few months of pain for the unemployed: I’ve been there and survived it, and most of them will too. But a collapsed economy is not an acceptable option, and that’s what we are still looking at. The recovery is slow: if the pubbies continue to be allowed to permit companies like Goldman-Sachs to rape every penny out of every account and lap up additional billions of taxpayer dollars, it will falter, founder, and sink like a rock.
But that’s just it. The Democrats never do that. They cede control of the message to the Republicans every bloody time. I could almost, not quite, but almost understand the logic of letting the Republicans rape the country if the Democrats would hold it up to the light of day so everyone can see it, but they don’t, and even if they want to, they’re not good at it, and end up looking foolish in the process.
The only thing the Republicans understand is brute force; subtlety and nuance is lost on them and their constituents. Obama should just do what’s right and deal with the repercussions later. I’m sure he’d sleep better at night knowing he’s being slapped around for doing the right thing than being slapped around for doing what he darned well knows is wrong in a vain attempt to appease those whose sole goal is to see him destroyed politically…or maybe I’m giving him too much credit.
Remember the “enthusiasm gap”? The main difference between the Democratic landslide of 2008 and the Republican landslide of 2010 is all the disaffected Obama voters who didn’t even bother to vote this time. If continues to disappoint his base, 2012 is going to be really ugly.
Seconded. Thirded. Fourthed. Frank Rich nailed it as well.
As I wrote to the Dems and the White House I don’t have to show up to the polls in 2012.
Grow a spine, Mr. President or get lost. We didn’t elect you to be George W. Bush with better speeches.
Then he and Biden may as well resign and let Captain Pumpkin into the big chair already.
Barack Obama - perfecting the art of pre-compromise since November, 2008.
-Joe
I’m reminded of Joe Haldeman. That’s Haldeman the sci-fi writers, not Haldeman the scum bag.
In his book The Forever War, the Earthlings fight a long, long intergalactic war with the Taurians. Eventually, they understand enough of Taurian symbology and logic to send a message: “Why did you start this war?” Some years later, the answer comes back: “What do you mean, us?”
Or take The Guns of August, Ms. Tuchman’s brilliant inquiry into the opening days of WWI. For years before, scholars and economists had proven that a pan-European war was impossible, the European states were too interconnected, no one could win, therefore, nobody would be so stupid. Alas.
Disasters like that aren’t planned, they are never intended, but a shrug is misunderstood as an insult, a gesture of compromise is misunderstood as a cave-in, and the alpha lemming leads.
I honestly think they are that stupid. They are full of themselves, they have, once again! an unshakable mandate from the American people, who whole heartedly support their every move, except for the sixty percent who don’t understand, and they don’t count. They swear that if we don’t give Paris Hilton more cocaine, they will shoot Barry’s dog. Well, OK, maybe they won’t, but they’ve already shown us, time and again, that we cannot trust their reasonability. Such as it were. And I am in no mood to start scraping doggy brains off the walls.
The corporatist, business Pubbies calculated they could control the nutbars. Maybe they’re right, but it doesn’t look promising, their voices aren’t clear, as they are muffled by Satan’s scaly pecker.
I play a pretty fair game of poker, it my native Texas, it is a religious requirement. I think I could read a liberal, centrist wussy like Obama like I could read *Curious George *to my kid.
On the other hand, I didn’t think he could win, and there he is. So maybe I ought to just shut the fuck up and let him play his hand. And about the only thing I don’t ever trust is certainty. Not mine, not yours, not Jesus’. In my religious perspective, doubt is as holy as faith, and more useful.
It took me a few minutes to figure out who “Captain Pumpkin” was.
I have a feeling a lot (vis a vis some of the threats on this thread) will depend on the Republican nominee for President. Mitt Romney? Maybe quite a few will go through. Sarah Palin? I’m… somewhat skeptical.
At any rate, I note that Krugman at least fully acknowledges the risk that this will be spun as “the Democrats raise taxes for everyone.” But I read somewhere a good point: there’s a huge danger that if the tax cuts expire, new ones (or old ones) will be implemented… by the new Republican House. THEN the Republicans can take any and all credit for tax reductions, and what can Obama do? Refuse to implement those too?
Take a poll and I’ll bet at least 75% of those polled will tell you that no only do Democrats raise taxes, but they also did so within six months of Obama taking office.
The GOPtards have proven that you don’t need to have any facts on your side. Everyone knows that Democrats are weak-kneed doves who do nothing but raise taxes and spend it on negroes so that they’ll vote for them - they’re practically Socialists.
Meanwhile, the GOP is composed of an amalgam of Rambo, John Wayne, and Jesus - so, basically Ronald Reagan.
-Joe
In right after edit window (how I hate that): Things like this is one big reason I’m avoiding ALL big political blogs/boards these days (and may do so for the long haul). I just don’t need another source of “stress.” Though I will disagree that Obama is SO much “like a Republican” that NO possible Republican candidate would “be much worse.” Heck, I think I may disagree that MOST Republican candidates “can’t be much worse.”
He *could *be negotiating with terrorists. Or else he really does believe it, and said what he thought he had to say during the campaign.
“You are what you repeatedly do.” - Aristotle, as quoted by Shaquille O’Neal.