In his speech last night President Obama signalled willingness to consider letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy continue, which would cost the government $700 billion dollars.
I cannot BELIEVE how stupid this is. If you are going to negotiate, start by offering a little bitty thing. Don’t signal your willingness to give Republicans one of their major objectives.
I have been hesitant to criticize Obama prior to the midterm elections, although his use of people like Tim Geithner to solve our financial problems has bugged the hell out of me. But THIS is just too much. Don’t be a fucking idiot, Mr. President. Negotiating ain’t rocket science.
Even if obama is privately resigned to the fact that the tax breaks are here to stay, he shouldn’t make it easy for them.
While obviously tax cuts can be good for an economy, most economic analyses I’ve seen do not consider these cuts to be worth their cost in terms of job creation or encouraging spending.
Since the Repubs say they are not going to negotiate but determine policy, he should tell them to fuck off. McConnell says his most important job is defeating Obama in 2012. What kind of starting point is that?
Much better than Obama’s. He can now cede having another goal, maybe perhaps. Such as extending tax cuts for the wealthy, and allow Obama to give him that.
Willingness to consider is not the same thing as an offer. And this is conciliatory rhetoric for the press, not the negotiating table with Republicans. What are they going to do, hold him to a “willingness to consider”? The only reason you think that’s a concession is the wider and false narrative that Obama gave too much away to the Republicans in the last two years.
There’s nothing false about it. He didn’t stand up for the progressive principles he campaigned on. He let the Republicans define the narrative of his administration. He caved on Health Care. He caved on the Stimulus. He caved on Guantanamo. He caved on (or worse yet, chose not to even confront) immigration. He’s acting like a Republican on Gay rights, esp. DADT, which I call a cave. He’s STILL speaking conciliatorily about Republicans, which is a freaking waste of time as their only desire is to destroy him.
Now he’s talking about removing the sunset from the Bush tax cuts which, if he doesn’t, the Republicans will say he increased taxes, and oh boy, we can’t have that, can we? Forget about the fact that it would be a bald-faced lie. It’s more important to not be called a tax & spender than to do what’s right. And mark my words, Obama will ultimately remove the sunset provision on the Bush tax cuts, because that’s just the type of weak, spineless, gutless, and convictionless wonders today’s Democrats truly are.
The Republicans may be evil, but at least they have balls.
You’re wrong on every single point. And this stupid narrative, which confuses what Obama fought for with what he could get from Congress, is part of what has damaged his reputation so much.
Let’s take it point by point then. I’m willing to admit when I’ve made a mistake.
Health Care
The Public Option was on the table. Hell, single payer would have been on the table if he’d have had the guts to propose it, knowing it was being clamored for by his constituency. But okay, let’s take what we can get, right? The Public Option is better than nothing, right? There was an initial big push for it, then, ostensibly, to give Congress some say in the process, Obama stepped back. The Republicans took the opportunity to, once again, frame the narrative, which gained momentum pretty easily. Obama then stepped back in when it looked like the prospect of any kind of reform at all was about to go belly up. He then wouldn’t admit to abandoning the Public Option, while defacto doing so. Realizing, I presume, that he had to get something passed, he reached for Republican proposals, thinking he could possibly massage and package them as reform even Republicans would accept. But Obama, once again, underestimated the Republicans, and understood, too late, that he was in a sinking raft. Members of his own party began breaking away. It’s amazing he was able to pass the watered-down crap he did. Yes, he caved on Health Care.
ETA: And, oh yeah. Not only did he preserve the power of the health insurance industry, he gave them more.
compared to the other items on the table, the bush tax cuts are a little item. It is just money. If Obama can get the Repubs to carry off the tax cuts as a trophy and give in on health care and economic stimulus, we will all be a lot better off. remember, 700 billion doesn’t have a t (as in trillion) in it. Heck, the Feds just created 600 Billion in one day yesterday. Let them focus on a tax cut for the rich. Something that one way or the other is going to happen anyway. Either this tax cut or some more loopholes. Focus on what matters.
It’s true that the bush tax cuts are of less scale than those other two bills, but I disagree that we should be content with just having the other two.
Because in a sense, healthcare and the stimulus are a given.
Despite all the tough talk, a healthcare repeal would be exceedingly difficult even if the GOP won in 2012. Yet alone before such an situation.
With the stimulus, they can’t un-spend it. And the Pubs don’t have a great history of finding spending cuts.
it’s just money? What the hell are you talking about? 700 billion is a LOT of money! It DOES matter! And one of the reasons it matters is, it’s government WASTE! The tax cuts for the rich do VERY little to enhance our economy. And the OTHER reason it matters is, 700 Billion is a HELL of a lot of money. Hell, if we let ALL the tax breaks sunset, we could save $3.8 trillion! But I suppose that is not much money, either.
Hey, since 700 billion is not much money to you, could I have some pocket change? Say, $5 million. It’s not much to you I’m sure, but it would mean a HELL of a lot to me.
I’m confused. They can’t repeal anything that has already been passed unless the Democrats vote with them, or Obama signs something. The only reason to compromise is so the Pubbies will allow new legislation to pass.
And why give in on this one thing? If all the tax breaks sunset, they’ll be out even more.
But Mr. T, if they do that, they will all be out on their asses in two years, as most voters in this country voiced their earlier this week, the stuff that has gotten done is not the direction we want to go. Obama and the Senators that cycle up for re-election in 2012 have to make compromises or they will be gone.
IMHO that’s 100% wrong. The progressive base stayed home. Those 7 million extra people who showed up and pulled the lever for Democrats in 2008 didn’t bother to vote this time. The number of gay people who voted for Republicans was up by a huge percent this time. Do you think they voted for republicans because they were afraid Don’t Ask Don’t Tell almost was abolished and they would hate for that to happen? Of do you think they’re pissed because it hasn’t happened yet? The base didn’t support Democrats, not because they suddenly hate progressive policies, but because nobody on the ballot represented their interests. The way to get re-elected is not to run scared from doing what is in the best interest of the country because it can be framed as a tax increase. It’s to - for once- encourage the base by standing up and fighting for the principles you claim to represent.
Insulting your base - which the Obama administration and democrats did on a regular basis - is not way to win elections.
Republicans were handed a pretty strong rebuke in 2008. Sure didn’t make them feel like giving concessions. Indeed it hardened them to making no concessions whatsoever.
Of course, before the election Obama’s idea of negotiating was to saying things like,
“Here’s the bottom line: I WON.”
“Time for Republicans to ride in the back of the bus.”
“Time for those who made the mess to get out of the way and let the rest of us lead.”
“Hispanics: Get out there and punish your enemies.”
But this is nothing new. When politicians win an election, they declare a mandate. If they have a majority and can pass stuff without the minority, they declare a huge mandate and deny the other side any credibilty at all.
Then if they lose their majority, then suddenly the other side is expected to compromise in a spirit of bipartisanship and good will.
Politicians of all stripes in all countries behave this way.
The problem with your analysis is that self-declared liberals only make up about 20% of the electorate. Self-described conservatives make up over 40% of the electorate. And the moderates in the middle, who favored Obama by 8% in the last election favored Republicans by 16% in this election. That’s a swing of 24 points, and that’s huge. Those moderates weren’t upset that Obama wasn’t liberal enough - they were upset because he was too liberal. It was only his 20% liberal base that wanted him to move to the left.
If Obama does what you suggest and starts moving to hardcore liberal positions down the line, he will lose the next election in the biggest blowout in modern history.
You liberals need to wake up and realize that you aren’t a majority, and you aren’t even a large minority. You’re 1/5 of the country, and you’re simply not going to get everything you want. America is a center-right country.