Jefferson pretty openly disavowed any belief in Christian doctrine and explicitly denied the divinity of Jesus.
Lots of early (and some later) Christian sects disavowed the divinity of Jesus- and Jefferson disavowed any belief in Christian doctrine yet also called himself a Christian and a believer and published his own bible. Hence “closet deist”.
Cite for him saying he was a Christian? He wrote a letter to John Adams clearly stating that he was not. His Bible removed all miracles, and all reference to the divinity of Jesus. While he did believe what Jesus was a great moral teacher, he thoroughly rejected any belief that he was anything more than that. He said the Gospel stories were no different than Greek mythology, and was highly critical of Christianity in general. For instance he said this in a letter to a friend:
It’s true he was a Deist, but he was nowhere close to a Christian.
…and NOT a particularly closeted one. Which shouldn’t be surprising, considering how it was a popular belief system among the well-off intelligensia, who made up much of the electorate.
Giving the vote to white men *who didn’t even own property *was the first step to Perdition, and it’s all been downhill from there. Modern America pushes politicians–the same politicians who have selflessly :rolleyes: created This Great Land–to profess a faith or be replaced by some chawbacon who does. I mean, how can you run a country if any chicken chaser, woman, or Negro can vote?
d&r
I’d be annoyed. The time to say " I’m not a churchgoer and there will be no futher comment" was eighteen months ago or so–a time when those who voted in the Primaries for the Democrats could pick someone else as a candidate.
At this point, I don’t expect great piety or frequent church attendence, but I do expect that the Obamas will recognize that their choice of church or lack thereof is an issue of some interest to the media.
I’m a Christian, and regular church-goer, but I don’t think I’d refuse to vote for someone who stood for things I believe in on the grounds that he or she didn’t share my religious beliefs. (Once upon a time, I really liked Lieberman–who came to my attention as the first Vice-Presidential candidate who was Jewish).
There are people who do care, but mostly, I think President Obama has built enough of his popularity and campaign on the ideas of Change and Honesty, that it would be a near unpardonable sin (so to speak) to claim total disinterest in church-going at this point in time–had he claimed it a couple years ago, well, I’m not prepared to declare that it wouldn’t have influenced who would be in the White House at present.
I agree, Eureka. I couldn’t really give a flip if Obama (or any other candidate) is religious or not. But don’t tell me you are all the way through campaign season, and then tell me you aren’t once you get elected. That’s pandering and lying and says a lot more about a person than what church he goes to.
Since this is about President Obama, not President Jefferson, let me point out that he’s been a loyal and active member of the United Church of Christ for better than a decade, attending irregularly during the campaign for what I think are obvious reasons. The whole bit with his former pastor’s controversial views was played up by his opponents during the campaign for good reason.
Merely because he doesn’t attend a “we don’t believe in abortion or evIlution, and God is a Republican it says so in the Bible” type of Christian does not make him not a Christian – IMO hie’s much truer to Christ’s message than the clowns who play up their piety before others.
I don’t think you understand this quote. It’s actually a denial that he’s a Christian.
It’s a denial that he’s an ‘orthodox’ Christian, but he did claim to be a Christian in the sense he thought Jesus intended.
I think he was totally wrong & has since been happily corrected, however, so I’m almost sure he is a Christian now.
It would be way worse than getting a used ute for free.
WAY WORSE
Listen to em go about it^
But he chose the wrong one. He’s not worshiping the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Just as long as there are no reports of bloodcurdling shrieks and loud chants of “Ia! Ia Shub-Niggurath! Cthulhu fhtagn!” coming from the WH basement…
…anymore.
Oh, wait…that was the National Observatory basement…
“Cthulu Hates Fhtagn!” --Fhred Fhelps
As a Christian I don’t feel I have any sort of monopoly on use of the word, but my opinion is if you don’t accept the divinity of Christ you aren’t a Christian, period. I won’t be too offended at people who deny Christ’s divinity while persisting in labeling themselves Christian.
I don’t think one should consider Thomas Jefferson a Christian. Doesn’t believe in the divinity of Christ, by and large seems to dismiss faith wholesale aside from certain moral philosophies–that is a man who isn’t religious at all. An atheist in all but name.
And he thought that Jesus did not intend to be taken as anything but a moral teacher. He was being facetious.
It’s not news either. At best, it belongs at the end of the newscast or in the back of the paper under entertainment or lite human interest. It doesn’t belong on the front page or at the beginning of a newscast. I also include the Obama girls first day at school or what Mrs. Obama wears.
A while back on the Daily Show, John Stewart showed a clip from the NBC Nightly News with John Chancellor, I believe. They were talking about Amy Carters first day at school. After the story, he said, that’s the last they’d talk about AC and school. Fluff pieces are fine, it’s the constant focus on non-news that I am tired of.
Other than being opposed to gay marriage, that is.
And other than refusing to repeal “Don’t Ask - Don’t Tell”
And other than wanting to fund more faith-based initiatives.
And other than using religious rhetoric fairly frequently.
You know who that sounds like? George Bush.
This just goes to show you that partisanship allows you to see what you want to see. Bush was a ‘fundy’, a ‘religious wacko’, and evil for his opposition to gay marriage, and Obama is damned near a perfect secular president.
Oddly enough, I disagree with you and agree with you simultaneously, Sam. Your point about perception, if divested of partisanship, is a good one.
But let’s note that accusations that Obama is not a Christian are small-minded and insulting – he’s made very clear what his faith is, and it’s merely the Religious Right who think they have a corner on defining “Christian” who are defaming him, because his style of Christianity is more like mine and that of some of the other liberal Christians around here than it is their Church of St. George the W.