[QUOTE=John Mace]
Did your grandmother come from a demographic group at risk of being caught up in a generational cycle of crime and poverty?
[/QUOTE]
She did not (although I can’t imagine it was easy being an immigrant who spoke no English), but shouldn’t that be more of a reason why some African-Americans would try to strive harder after “one of their own” made it?
I can see an Obama presidency, much like Affirmative Action, as being a bit of a helping nudge to Blacks who have already extricated themselves from or were never part of the “inner city” cycle of poverty and violence. It will help make Whites more accepting of Blacks in the workplace-- those with some reasonable education who do not appear threatening or otherwise setting themselves apart from mainstream society But I don’t see it changing attitudes about violence in the inner city and high incidents of absentee fathers. Blacks who speak with distinct AAVE accents and/or who dress differently will be seen as a different group, with individuality masked by the superficial assessment people make based on appearance. Obama isn’t going to change human nature.
And, as some have mentioned already, an Obama presidency will give large numbers of Whites one more excuse to think that society has done all it needs to do. Hey, if we can put one of “them” in the WH, why can’t the rest of “them” get with the program and stop playing the victim.
Well, in that case we’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. So back to square one - voting for the candidate who you think is best for the country over all - clearly Obama :D. Actually, John, I have no idea for whom you are voting this year. You love devil’s advocacy, and I would call you a right centrist.
At this point, I’m leaning toward Obama. I’m just not expecting him to be the second coming. I think he’ll make a competent president and will try to do what he thinks is best for the country. I don’t expect him to screw up too much. The presidency is a job with way more downside potential than upside (in term of affecting the country).
What effect did voting Obama into the state legislature have on inner city Chicago students? Seems a lot more immediate than who winds up in the Oval Office.
Regards,
Shodan
There are plenty of Blacks in state legislatures, though. Maybe a better question is what effect Duval Patrick has had on inner city kids in Boston .
Sure, but isn’t that sort of depressing - even after it is not all that uncommon to elect blacks to political office, it doesn’t seem to do much good. I see no reason to believe the highest office in the land will be any different.
Regards,
Shodan
[QUOTE=Shodan]
Sure, but isn’t that sort of depressing - even after it is not all that uncommon to elect blacks to political office, it doesn’t seem to do much good. I see no reason to believe the highest office in the land will be any different.
Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean it doesn’t do much good? The institutional barriers of racism in this country have almost been completely broken down.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
But that’s not true for all people and groups. My grandmother still has a picture of JFK hanging in her house because being “The President” and “Catholic” was a big deal. The first African-American president will be a big deal for a long time and have a much wider effect than JFK’s religious beliefs.
[/QUOTE]
My grandmother was the same way. But that’s because she raised me by her values of dignity–that good education, and a good work ethic lead to a good job, and maybe even a run for political office.
JFK was a proud source of hope for her —but her world was already full of hope and inspiration. She inspired her family to succeed. Her world had no crack houses, guns or teenage pregnancies.
[QUOTE=Argent Towers]
First of all, being black is about more than looking black. I’ve read and heard many, many stories about young black kids being shunned by their peers for getting good grades, dressing conservatively and staying out of trouble - they get stigmatized as “too white.” I think the exact same thing is going to happen to Obama if he wins.
[/QUOTE]
He acts the way you’re describing already, and everybody knows it, and the AAs still appear enthusiastic about him.
People are a lot more aware of the president than they are of legislators, even U.S. representatives and senators, much less state legislators. Although I agree with John Mace that’s there more potential for damage than benefit with any president, a sincere message of hope and a solid direction toward a better future–where freedom and opportunity are more accessible to all–can resonate with a lot of people who otherwise feel pretty grim about how well the government works for them.
I think an Obama election will be very inspiring.
Contrary to Shodan, I think the election of African Americans to political positions actually has made a difference. For one thing, it means electing someone like Obama is actually possible. That’s not trivial.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
At this point, I’m leaning toward Obama. I’m just not expecting him to be the second coming. I think he’ll make a competent president and will try to do what he thinks is best for the country. I don’t expect him to screw up too much. The presidency is a job with way more downside potential than upside (in term of affecting the country).
[/QUOTE]
If I’d been put on the rack and forced to predict, I think I might have said something like this for you - I never did think you were a knee-jerk right-winger, even though you seem to play one on TV sometimes.
On the whole, I agree. Obama is a charismatic, competent, and pragmatic moderate who leans a little to the left of center. I don’t expect the Second Coming either, but I think he may be able to go a long way to undoing some of the damage done in the past eight years, especially in foreign relations. And McCain, while certainly an improvement over the current administration, scares me a bit; he is very quick tempered, and a bit too prone to see military solutions as the first option. Also, I rather despise him for the efforts he’s made in the past four years to suck up to the extreme right - I would have been much happier accepting him in 2000 than I would be in 2008.
The one thing of which I feel fairly certain is that regardless of who wins, January 20, 2009 will be the start of an improvement for the U.S, if only in the ethics of its CinC and minions.
[QUOTE=Shodan]
Sure, but isn’t that sort of depressing - even after it is not all that uncommon to elect blacks to political office, it doesn’t seem to do much good. I see no reason to believe the highest office in the land will be any different.
Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]
and
State legislators live next door to me. The person who holds the most powerful position on the planet does not. State legislators will [with an appointment] have lunch with you (at least where I live, CT) and as far as I know the president of the Unites States of America won’t. State legislators will show up at your country fair grounds to eat some cottom candy with their kids…POTUS won’t…most likely.
I have no idea who the state legislator is in French Lick, Indiana, but I know who the the POTUS is.
For some reason either one of you don’t seem willing to give credence to a black man becoming president. It seems that that position somehow lacks some credibility, or integrity in some way. Perhaps by looking at the goofball leaving office right now I can see your point.
I will make an inference that if Obama becomes president, inner city teachers in predominently black neighborhoods will have his picture up on the wall. And will point to it the next time some disgruntled 14 year old says, " I ain’t got no reason to go through dis shit, what am I gonna be???"
I would not discount the level of importance of electing a black man to the POTUS will mean to a lot of people. And I don’t really care if it’s not going to mean much to idiot fathers out there, or to some HS junior right now, it will mean something to a lot of people who will grow up knowing Obama became president. A whole hell of a lot more than when GWB became president. That event was but a whiff of clouds compared to what some will think if it’s Obama being inaugurated in January.
Call me what you will, but I know Obama can’t walk on water and won’t turn water into wine, but he will be a great source of inspiration for those who have non. That is enough for me to know.
It’s an extra added bonus that he is smart and I believe has good judgement. That’s a fringe benefit to me. I think Obama will be a good president, maybe not FDR, but above average nontheless.
Let’s also consider the cumulative impact on kids growing up with Obama as a two-term president (hope!), growing up with a black man in the Oval Office being the norm. What will it mean for black boys and girls whose president looks like them all during their formative years?
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
Let’s also consider the cumulative impact on kids growing up with Obama as a two-term president (hope!), growing up with a black man in the Oval Office being the norm. What will it mean for black boys and girls whose president looks like them all during their formative years?
[/QUOTE]
The birth of a new social generation…Implications are inclear…but if he turns out to be a really decent president, the implications will be much more far reaching.
Oops… that should read implications unclear, missed the window. This will happen when trying to simul-grill-n-post 
Would a Barack Obama presidency serve, in effect, as “reparations” for slavery?
*(DISCLAIMER: I offer no opinion on whether that would be good or bad, or on reparations in general.)
*
[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I]
Would a Barack Obama presidency serve, in effect, as “reparations” for slavery?
*(DISCLAIMER: I offer no opinion on whether that would be good or bad, or on reparations in general.)
*
[/QUOTE]
I’m of the opinion that slavery must be written off as a bad debt just like the seizure of Indian lands. It was a horrible thing, but there are no feasibly reparations. The closest we can do are social programs that are already in place.
I’m not optimistic about Obama inspiring inner city black youth either for, as already noted, he’s from a middle class background. For that matter if the next president was a former black kid from a single parent welfare receiving family in Cabrini Green, I wouldn’t be that optimistic- the problem with kids is they’re kids- they don’t realize the importance of things like school until they’re too old for it (not pointing fingers- I was the same way- I’m one of the few people who will say my parents should have pushed me harder than they did). It’s the parents of these children (not just black and not just inner city but impoverished “crime + poverty” cycle of all demographics) that need to be reached.
At work I anonymously paid for and printed (my boss knows I did it and gave me permission to display it) a poster of Malcolm X that reads “Ignorance begets poverty, it is not the other way around”, which I always thought was one of his most powerful quotes. While my school is in fact mostly black (about 65-35), the message is damned sure applicable to people of all shades. I hate the way that knowledge for its own sake is disdained by young people, and it’s no more true where I work now (whose students are predominantly from poorer families and from Alabama’s infamously bad public schools) than it was when I worked at colleges where the students were mostly white and mostly from middle class or better backgrounds. The amount of ignorance among the young today is just mind boggling, when they have a million times more quality information literally at their fingertips (and in their homes for most) than I ever would have dreamed of being able to access when I was their age… and the notion that “if I need to know it’s on the net” seeming to override the fact that more than ever before they need an infrastructure to sort and build on…
Anyway, off my soapbox, but the point is don’t do drugs without wearing your seatbelt, or something like that.
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
<snip> the problem with kids is they’re kids- they don’t realize the importance of things like school until they’re too old for it (not pointing fingers- I was the same way- I’m one of the few people who will say my parents should have pushed me harder than they did). It’s the parents of these children (not just black and not just inner city but impoverished “crime + poverty” cycle of all demographics) that need to be reached.
[/QUOTE]
Plain and simple I have more faith in kids these days. I’m not jaded or blind, but I do listen and further I hear what is coming out of a lot of these schools. Not that I am the endall of information on the teenage mind - hardly - but I have close friends who work in Brookyn, south Boston in inner city schools. Parents are certainly to blame, but kids do make it out, and kids do go against their parents poor judgement. I certainly hope they will have an aspiration or two higher if Obama is elected. I don’t care if it’s a handful of kids from different cities around the country…that’s a start.
[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
Obama is only the vessel.
[/QUOTE]
Does this explain why he’s been tacking to starboard lately? 