[QUOTE=Sampiro]
II’m not optimistic about Obama inspiring inner city black youth either for, as already noted, he’s from a middle class background. For that matter if the next president was a former black kid from a single parent welfare receiving family in Cabrini Green, I wouldn’t be that optimistic- the problem with kids is they’re kids- they don’t realize the importance of things like school until they’re too old for it (not pointing fingers- I was the same way- I’m one of the few people who will say my parents should have pushed me harder than they did). It’s the parents of these children (not just black and not just inner city but impoverished “crime + poverty” cycle of all demographics) that need to be reached.
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Exactamundo. Kids have any number of role models these days, and if that was all it took we’d have solved the problem decades ago. And it’s too much to expect of Obama, too. I’m sure he will inspire the odd teenager here and there, but he’s not going to affect a whole class of people.
Studies have shown that kids set the patter for relative success/failure at a very early age-- long before they have any political awareness at all. The biggest influence by far at that stage is going to be their parents (or other care-givers).
[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
Plain and simple I have more faith in kids these days. I’m not jaded or blind, but I do listen and further I hear what is coming out of a lot of these schools. Not that I am the endall of information on the teenage mind - hardly - but I have close friends who work in Brookyn, south Boston in inner city schools. Parents are certainly to blame, but kids do make it out, and kids do go against their parents poor judgement. I certainly hope they will have an aspiration or two higher if Obama is elected. I don’t care if it’s a handful of kids from different cities around the country…that’s a start.
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With all due respect, it’s not about having or not having faith-- it’s about understanding the science of human development. Bush has faith in the efficacy of abstinence only programs, but that doesn’t mean they work.
I’m going to make a different point here. Obama has roots as a community organizer, and he knows it works. Do you think he’ll support social programs in the inner city that improve the community?
And healthier communities mean better environments for education.
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath]
I’m going to make a different point here. Obama has roots as a community organizer, and he knows it works. Do you think he’ll support social programs in the inner city that improve the community?
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If that happens at the federal level, why hasn’t he done this as a Senator? Is this something only the President can do?
And can you provide cites that the programs Obama worked in had measurable effects in improving the educational performance in inner city schools in Chicago?
[QUOTE=John Mace]
With all due respect, it’s not about having or not having faith-- it’s about understanding the science of human development. Bush has faith in the efficacy of abstinence only programs, but that doesn’t mean they work.
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You are correct, it is about the science of human development, further the psychology of child development. There is no question children learn from the environ they are raised in. Tell a child they are a worthless brat from the age of 2-7 and that kid will certainly develop some negative thought patterns.
Perhaps an Obama administration will not change the lives of present day school ages kids. However, in terms of straight child development, some parents may see a black president as something they can reflect positively on and maybe that will be a positive that they can reflect onto their children.
Simply put, I cannot say an Obama administration will have zero effect on inner city youth. It’s not something we can measure right now - but I will infer that the possibility for positives is real - in what form they take I do not know.
And Shodan can we trace any enhanced educational performace in any given city to one individual?
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
Compare and contrast: The executive resources and authority of a president versus a junior senator.
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Or: compare and contrast: The resources and authority of a community organizer vs. a junior senator. One would think that even a junior Senator would be able to do more than a community organizer. Did he? If so, then certainly a President might be able to do more. If not, one might think that the increased demands on his time might make it even less likely that President Obama would be able to achieve much for the inner city schools of Chicago.
That’s really not how it works Shodan, over the course of an 8 year term (assuming he get’s reelected) he would and could move on legislation to improve the infrastructure for inner city parents to find support. We are not talking about a random afterschool program, we’re talking about social action + infrastructure + quality of life. These are things a President has little control over. However, this is something I believe Obama understands from his time working on the streets in Chicago. All of this is of course conjecture, as we don’t know what an Obama administration would do. We know what it could do, but that is different. I think any way you stretch it, having a president who inspires youth is a positive - having a president who inspires period is a good thing. And currently, Obama is inspiring to a large group of folks in the US. Should he make it to the Oval office a lot of people will be inspired not necessarily but who he is, but for what he stands for. It goes back to my original post, Obama is just the vessel.
[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
That’s really not how it works Shodan, over the course of an 8 year term (assuming he get’s reelected) he would and could move on legislation to improve the infrastructure for inner city parents to find support.
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Senators are legislators; Presidents are not. If Obama could move on legislation to improve inner city schools, has he done so as a Senator? I would expect that a Senator is much more likely to act on behalf of his state than a President would, since Senators represent states and Presidents act on behalf of the whole country. But, if Obama knows what works from his experience as a community organizer, what has he done to improve inner city school performance? And how much did it help?
If he did things and they worked, great. If he didn’t do much, or if we cannot determine if the things worked or not, then his experience as a community organizer isn’t worth very much - he either doesn’t know what works, or doesn’t care to do it (for whatever reason).
If you are arguing that he can only act effectively as a President, then perhaps you could explain how his experience as a community organizer equips him to be President but not to be a legislator.
If you just mean that Obama would inspire black students to work hard in school in ways that a white President would not, then I think you are badly over-estimating the influence of Presidents on the mindset of inner city youth. As has been pointed out, it seems that parental involvement and a background that encourages educational achievement over, say, basketball skills or gold teeth are much more powerful influences, and I doubt Obama is going to be able to much affect that.
Educational under achievement is a serious problem in the US, no doubt about it. If Obama’s background as a community organizer gave him any insight into possible solutions, then by all means let’s hear them, and especially let’s see the evidence that his solutions will actually make a measurable difference. If it is just that he is going to be inspiring, that is more-or-less negligible. We have enough feel-good nonsense in education already.
Doug Wilder was elected Governor of the Commonwealth of VA and served from 1990 - 1994. As far as I can recall, there was no great improvement in educational attainment, decreased crime rates, or a markedly great increase in the general health, safety, or welfare of anyone in the Commonwealth (much less troubled inner-city youth). Doug Wilder’s race was neither a help nor a hinderance to the succes or failure of his administration and I’ve never heard of anyone saying his election was the impetus behind them “pulling themselves up by their bootstraps,” staying in school, or doing much of anything.