Obama's Creepy 'Call to Service'

[Sam_Stone]

Here’s one of the things that bothers me most about Obama: He seems to think that not only is public service a good thing ( a statement few would disagree with), but he’s taking that general principle and being really extreme about it.

Is anyone else bothered by how much he wants to expand the notion of setting up various civilian ‘corps’?

Here’s a video of Obama’s Call to Service speech.

In his own words, this is not a small part of his candidacy:

This will not be a call issued in one speech or one program – this will be a central cause of my presidency. We will ask Americans to serve. We will create new opportunities for Americans to serve. And we will direct that service to our most pressing national challenges.

These are some of the things he says he’ll do:

[ul]
[li]Expand Americorps from 75,000 people to 250,000[/li][li]Create a new ‘energy corps’ to carry out environmental projects in local neighborhoods[/li][li]Create an online ‘Service Corps’ web site that’s like Monster.com, only for ‘service’ opportunities.[/li][li]Create a ‘Social Investment Fund’ that gives money to non-profits and volunteer organizations.[/li][/ul]

So far, I don’t have a lot of qualms, other than that it all sounds like a pretty big waste of time and money. But then he starts to get pushy:

So when I’m President, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year. This means that by the time you graduate college, you’ll have done 17 weeks of service.

We’ll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we’ll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities. At the community level, we’ll develop public-private partnerships so students can serve more outside the classroom.

So… public schools will have their funding cut unless they force their students to perform 50 hours of service a year. Since for most people, public school is the only choice they’ve got, this amounts to a mandatory service program for every child in a public school in the country. I would find this blatantly offensive, and if I lived in the U.S. I would refuse to take part in it, even if it forced me to pull my child out of public school. I don’t want my kid starting life thinking that the state somehow has a right to demand his time and labor.

in the meantime, he’s going to inject the government into private industry to force them to accept these kids and their ‘service’. And no doubt these kids doing forced ‘service’ will be angry and unwilling to do much work at all, so companies will resist. What a disaster this would be.

He then talks about how he’s going to screw up college kids:

For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000. To receive this credit, we’ll require 100 hours of public service. You invest in America, and America invests in you – that’s how we’re going to make sure that college is affordable for every single American, while preparing our nation to compete in the 21st century.

This is one of those things that sounds okay on the surface, but has pernicious effects. I mean, it’s voluntary, right? The problem is that it’s such a good deal for students that they’ll all take part in it. Heck, that’s $40/hr, far more than they’ll make at graduation, and probably two or three times as much as a typical summer internship would pay. So this will eviscerate the summer job system the economy has already worked out, and it will take all those kids who gain experience in private industry while in college and instead jam them into makework government programs. Businesses that rely on summer students will be destroyed. Government will expand in a big way into the economy. This sucks.

And in the end, it might not be good for students either, because a huge injection of cash into the college environment could simply result in tuition inflation. So now kids will HAVE to work these jobs, because there’s no way a normal summer job would make up for the new price hikes in education.

But it gets worse:

And we will not leave out the nearly 2 million young Americans who are out of school and out of work. We’ll enlist them in our Energy Corps, so that disadvantaged young people can find useful work, clean polluted areas, help weatherize homes, and gain skills in a growing industry. And we’ll expand the YouthBuild Program, which puts young Americans to work building affordable housing in America’s poorest communities, giving them valuable skills and a chance to complete a high school education.

What that sounds like is: If you’re young and don’t have a job, we’re going to create a huge government jobs program and enlist you in it. I assume it won’t pay the current minimum wage, since Obama opposes that. So it will displace all the current jobs that rely on young minimum wage workers. Imagine - a new government program employing 2 million young people, plus all the overhead to manage it. This would be a huge expansion of government.

Oh, and apparently he 's going to create a new program of federally-subdisized public housing. In other speeches he outlines that a bit more, and his plans are on a pretty big scale: Thousands of new homes per year built with federal money.

And the worst, craziest idea of all (hear it at 16:45 of his speech):

We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.

WTF? A civilian national security force? Just as powerful and well funded as the U.S. military? What, are you going to spy on your neighbors? Hire people to search handbags of people going in and out of buildings?

Add all this up, and Obama appears to have a completely different view of America - one in which everyone works for the state from time to time, where citizens are enlisted into ‘corps’ which tackle national problems, where every kid in America will have to do mandatory service for the country before becoming citizens.

Sorry, but this sounds… Fascist. It turns the relationship between government and citizens as spelled out in the constitution on its head. It’s one thing for government to fund a small auxiliary of volunteers like the Peace Corps. It’s quite another to inject every nook and cranny of American life with calls for ‘service’ to the state.

The phrase he used during the section on college ‘service’ is especially telling: “You invest in America, and America invests in you.” College kids aren’t ‘investing in America’. They are investing in themselves. They are acting to better their own lives as free people.

For me, this is one of the big deal-killers with Obama. And I would think this would cause Liberals to worry the most. I’ll bet if John McCain was saying this stuff it would be giving you the creeps.

Comments?

[astorian]

To me, it’s not so much scary as stupid.

“Drafting” unwilling young people into volunteer work can’t and won’t work.

Look, we can draft unwilling young men into the Army, and that can work because sergeants are allowed to bully them and abuse them and lock them in the stockade if they don’t perform as they should.

But I’m betting the people at Austin Recycles (to pick one local group) have enough problems without having to babysit dozens of teenagers who don’t want to be there and are only going through the motions of working to fulfill a requirement.

The local Head Start programs don’t NEED dozens of bored teenagers sitting around twiddling their fingers, pretending to be helping little kids learn to read.

[marshmallow]

It’s called martialism and I am to understand is quite popular among the more authoritarian leaning types. It certainly has a whole host of positives for the establishment. There may be problems instituting it at first but imagine the payback in another generation. There’s nothing sweeter than the multitudes showing due deference to state authority. I mean, even moreso.

@Sam Stone

And I would think this would cause Liberals to worry the most. I’ll bet if John McCain was saying this stuff it would be giving you the creeps.

You could say this with regard to numerous issues which you may otherwise think would be core to their belief but which in reality are fairly malleable. As an example, a liberal Democrat’s aversion to high altitude bombing of backwater countries greatly depends on who exactly is commanding those planes.

[BrainGlutton]

@Sam Stone

I don’t want my kid starting life thinking that the state somehow has a right to demand his time and labor.

Eh? It is noncontroversial that the state has a right to demand his money, and possibly more – the military draft, while controversial, has never been ruled unconstitutional.

[Shodan]

I only skimmed the transcript, but I didn’t see where he mentioned how we will pay for all this new stuff.

I can only assume that he is exaggerating with his notion of a “national security civilian force” that costs just as much as the military. Such an idea is too moronic in too many ways to address.

The words “gigantic boondoggle” don’t begin to address this kind of thing. I can’t imagine anyone seriously believing that the non-profits of America need an infusion of bored teen-agers doing make work thumb-twiddling. And I can hardly believe the engineers of tomorrow will benefit from being pulled out of the classrooms and set to picking up trash for credit, even if Obama thinks it would work.

This confirms me in my suspicions, that BO has no real clue how our society works.

Regards,
Shodan

[Raygun99]

@Sam Stone

This is one of those things that sounds okay on the surface, but has pernicious effects. I mean, it’s voluntary, right? The problem is that it’s such a good deal for students that they’ll all take part in it. Heck, that’s $40/hr, far more than they’ll make at graduation, and probably two or three times as much as a typical summer internship would pay. So this will eviscerate the summer job system the economy has already worked out, and it will take all those kids who gain experience in private industry while in college and instead jam them into makework government programs. Businesses that rely on summer students will be destroyed. Government will expand in a big way into the economy. This sucks.

Eh? 2 hours a week of community service will mean kids won’t get a summer job?

[Merijeek]

@Raygun99

Eh? 2 hours a week of community service will mean kids won’t get a summer job?

It’s like the evil liberal has found a way to tax TIME!!! He truly is the most liberal person in Congress!

-Joe

[Marley23]

@Sam Stone

Sorry, but this sounds… Fascist.

See, you had some good, solid points and then had to make this sharp turn into the land of hyperbole.

The phrase he used during the section on college ‘service’ is especially telling: “You invest in America, and America invests in you.” College kids aren’t ‘investing in America’. They are investing in themselves. They are acting to better their own lives as free people.

I believe you’ve misunderstood what he was saying: ‘If you invest in America by performing community service, America will invest in you by aiding your education.’ He’s talking about the effect of the programs, not comparing college enrollment to investing in America.

Call me selfish or whatever, but I don’t like the part about forcing people into a variety of service programs, even though there’s been a trend toward that for years as part of college resume-burnishing efforts. I think people should contribute to whatever social programs they like. But I don’t like the idea of roping school districts into making their kids work just so the schools get funded. That’s a little scummy as far as I’m concerned. It’s for a good cause but it’s not the most ethical way of achieving it. Schools already have to jump through enough funding hoops without pushing kids into working for the government.

[Sam_Stone]

@Raygun99

Eh? 2 hours a week of community service will mean kids won’t get a summer job?

In another speech somewhere, he referred to it as a program to give summer jobs to students. So I’m assuming that’s 100 hours of service over the summer, which would pretty severely conflict with having another summer job. I suppose kids could do it if they were willing to work the equivalent of a job and a half over the summer, and if the ‘service’ can be done in the evenings, but I don’t see that as very likely.

I think you’re going to see a lot of this: A comp sci student can take a summer internship at a software company for $15/hr. Or, he can go pick leaves off the street for $40/hr. He’s not going to do both, and he’d be an idiot to spend the whole summer making $15/hr when he can spend a month working for the government for high pay and then party for a month.

There are unintended consequences to these kinds of sweeping, labor-displacing programs.

[DSeid]

Excuse for interrupting a good rant, but “… we’ll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities.” ≠ “public schools will have their funding cut unless they force their students to perform 50 hours of service a year” Many schools, including my kids’ schools have service programs. They are optional. He is just saying that they should be available options.

$4K tax credit for 100 hrs of public service does seem a bit generous. If you do not owe $4K (which I suspect many FT students will not) do you a get a rebate for the excess? If not then it may not be as generous as it sounds.

The rest just seems like a way to offer the same option of patriotically serving your country that some fulfill with military service to those who have no desire to join the military but still wish to serve and give back to America.

There are those who say that every one should serve and that compulsory service should be a cost of citizenship; that serving is a maturing experience for young adults. As the parent of a 22 year old, a 17 year old, and younger, I cannot completely disagree - but I would not want them going to Iraq, for example. A non-military option would be something I could support as an encouraged volunteer option and even consider as a compulsory one. It may serve as an alternative to the draft, freeing up some National Guard from homeland nonmilitary duties to serve in more military capacities.

Fascist? Hardly.

[Zeriel]

The only thing I take issue with is this–a lot of those comp sci students can’t get summer jobs–the pool of available internships is too small right now. To put in in perspective more, screw $15/hr, I have kids banging down the company’s door to work for free for a summer. And pulling free overtime. In the name of relevant experience.

I don’t think this is going to hurt the intern market, so much as it is going to give the kids who want or need money someplace to go for that while the kinds who want or need in-field experience continue to get it.

[John_Mace]

How many college students pay $4000 in federal income taxes? You’d need that in order to take advantage of a tax credit. Am I missing something?

At any rate, I’m definitely not on board with this stuff. Forcing more work on public K-12 programs is not a good idea, but maybe some good will come from that-- some states will finally say “fuck you” to federal funding, and go it alone. It would be about time.

[clairobscur]

@Sam Stone

So… public schools will have their funding cut unless they force their students to perform 50 hours of service a year. Since for most people, public school is the only choice they’ve got, this amounts to a mandatory service program for every child in a public school in the country. I would find this blatantly offensive, and if I lived in the U.S. I would refuse to take part in it, even if it forced me to pull my child out of public school. I don’t want my kid starting life thinking that the state somehow has a right to demand his time and labor.

Hmm… The state has somehow the right to to demand not only their time but also their blood, if need be. Coming from a country where military service or civil service was mandatory until recently, and neighbouring countries where it is still the case, I’ve not much of an issue with that. Much less of an issue than with the concept of military service, which still could be imposed at any moment on the American youth, actually.

If I lived in the USA, I would be all for it, generally speaking (it would depend on the exact way it is implemented). Imposing some sort of civic duty isn’t a no-no for me.

[clairobscur]

@astorian

“Drafting” unwilling young people into volunteer work can’t and won’t work.

It worked in all countries were a civil service existed or exists as an alternative to military service, despite the lack of drilling sergeants.
So, the argument “it can’t possibly work” doesn’t hold water since there are examples of it working.

[XT]

@DSeid

Excuse for interrupting a good rant, but “… we’ll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities.” ≠ “public schools will have their funding cut unless they force their students to perform 50 hours of service a year” Many schools, including my kids’ schools have service programs. They are optional. He is just saying that they should be available options.

That may be how it current is, but that’s not how I read Obama’s plans either. If he’s not going to make funding dependent in some way (and trust me, there are a LOT of ways the Feds get their pound of flesh for the CURRENT programs to the schools) then I don’t see the point…it ain’t gonna happen. And if he IS going to make it dependent on some level of participation by the schools…well then, I’m with Sam on this. Horrible idea either way.

@DSeid

There are those who say that every one should serve and that compulsory service should be a cost of citizenship; that serving is a maturing experience for young adults. As the parent of a 22 year old, a 17 year old, and younger, I cannot completely disagree - but I would not want them going to Iraq, for example. A non-military option would be something I could support as an encouraged volunteer option and even consider as a compulsory one. It may serve as an alternative to the draft, freeing up some National Guard from homeland nonmilitary duties to serve in more military capacities.

Did they slip in a draft when I wasn’t looking? Or maybe you are laboring under the impression that McCain is advocating a military draft, so you feel that Obama essentially discussing a non-military one is a fair and balanced stance?

The thing is, there are already plenty of volunteer non-compulsory and also non-military options out there. Creating what seems to me to be compulsory programs strikes me as costly AND foolish…and yeah, a might scary as well. YMMV, but I have to say that this program sounds like a very bad idea from what I’ve seen so far.

For me, this is one of the big deal-killers with Obama. And I would think this would cause Liberals to worry the most. I’ll bet if John McCain was saying this stuff it would be giving you the creeps.

Yeah…if he pushes ahead with this one I think that’s it for me. No chance I would support programs like this…and you are right, if McCain said the exact same thing then your hyperbolic comment about Facists would be the least of what we’d be hearing. I can just imagine the comments had something like this come from him instead of Obama…

Not only do I think they are a waste (I also would love to see how Obama thinks he can realistically fund all this stuff considering all the crap currently on our plate and all the other things he seemingly wants to do…where the hell is the money going to come from??) but if indeed he is talking about making these programs mandatory (even if the pressure comes subtly from Federal funding requirements or things of that nature) I see it as a slippery slope.

-XT

[Eva_Luna]

I haven’t seen the video (and I’m not going to watch it at work). But frankly, there are lots of kids who aren’t able to do something like military service even if they wanted to. For example, my 19-year-old half-brother is asthmatic; even if there were a draft, he wouldn’t be eligible for service. Luckily, he doesn’t have to worry about money for college, but if he were a working-class kids whose parents couldn’t shell out for tuition, and he didn’t want to incur tens of thousands of dollars in debt to finish his degree, it would be nice to know that he had other options.

Heck, even with the situation as it is (he has two parents with managerial jobs who are more than willing to shell out for tuition), if he spent a couple of hours a week seeing how those fortunate live, I wouldn’t think it was a bad thing. It’s a hell of a lot more productive than how he’s currently spending his summer.

And an hour a week for HS students, or 2 hours a week for college students, as long as it’s voluntary, really isn’t that big a deal.

[Spiny_Norman]

@Sam Stone

He then talks about how he’s going to screw up college kids:

For college students, I have proposed an annual American Opportunity Tax Credit of $4,000. To receive this credit, we’ll require 100 hours of public service. You invest in America, and America invests in you – that’s how we’re going to make sure that college is affordable for every single American, while preparing our nation to compete in the 21st century.

This is one of those things that sounds okay on the surface, but has pernicious effects. I mean, it’s voluntary, right? The problem is that it’s such a good deal for students that they’ll all take part in it. Heck, that’s $40/hr, far more than they’ll make at graduation, and probably two or three times as much as a typical summer internship would pay.

Perhaps I don’t understand this “tax credit” thing very well, but I think your math is a little enthusiastic. AFAIK, tax credits don’t come into play until you actually pay taxes. In other words, in addition to the 100-hour service, students would need to go out and make enough money - though their traditional, low-wage, menial student jobs - to hit the $4000 taxation mark, before you can use the “$40/hour” figure. I’ve not been able to find stats on the average college student’s tax contribution, but at a $10/hour burger flipping job, with a tax rate of 35%, we’re talking over 1000 hours. (1140, more or less.) That’s pretty much a half-time job.

So while the $40/hour figure isn’t entirely incorrect, it’s certainly not telling the full story either. I’m sure the college students can do the math well enough to avoid pernicious effects…

[Sateryn76]

I agree with most of the OP’s thoughts, and have grave concerns over the principal of the thing in regard to a citizen’s “duty”…

But, right now, my main question is - how in holy hell does OB think this will be paid for? How much more of my earnings is he going to claim for the government? This just seems insane to me - is he sitting on a unknown gold mine or something?

I always try to correct people - the “government” pays for nothing, the “taxpayers” pay for everything. No, that <insert program name here> you just took advantage of wasn’t “free”, it was paid for by taxpayers.

[Marley23]

@Eva Luna

And an hour a week for HS students, or 2 hours a week for college students, as long as it’s voluntary, really isn’t that big a deal.

Obama is probably counting on this and perhaps people don’t mind, but once a few kids started doing this, it’d become de rigeur for everyone else. That’s the way the college admissions process works in my experience- there’s a ton of copycatting and trying to catch up to the kids with the fullest resumes. So the meaning of “voluntary” probably varies here: it’s not compulsory, but it’ll probably get to the point quickly where not doing it will be seen as a demerit in the appication process. The more people feel compelled to do it, the more bored, unenthused kids you probably get.

[tds1273]

@Sam Stone

WTF? A civilian national security force? Just as powerful and well funded as the U.S. military? What, are you going to spy on your neighbors? Hire people to search handbags of people going in and out of buildings?

This too was my biggest hangup, hyperbole or not. Curious- what statements/stances/actions has Obama taken regarding such outfits as Blackwater?