Obama's Creepy 'Call to Service'

Great Debates
81

First of all, it’s anything but ‘desperation’. Believe it or not, I don’t have that much of a dog in this hunt. I’m not a huge fan of McCain’s, and I think there are a lot of potential positives in an Obama presidency. That doesn’t mean I can’t call out idiocy when I see it, from either side.

Second, the only reason I linked to a ‘wingnut blogger’ is because that’s the only place I can find the actual video of the speech, and the transcripts of it at the mainstream media sites have removed the crazier passages. And Obama has taken the speech and transcript off his own web site.

Says you. You don’t get to ignore an issue by simply declaring it a non-issue. What will determine how large an issue it is is how voters react to it. I guess we’ll see. But to me, calling for a 2 million-strong ‘environment corps’ and setting a goal that every kid in America do public service seems to me to be a non-trivial thing. But in the end, the voters will decide how trivial it is.

Really? Let me quote Obama again: “We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

It seems to me that, in 37 words he said that he wants a civilian national security force that’s as strong, as powerful, and as well funded as the military. It doesn’t really seem so confusing to me. But then, my brain isn’t clouded by Obama love.

Oh, so Obama gets a pass, huh? This from the guy who has been trumpeting McCain’s single-word slip as a sign of the doddering old fool’s incompetence. But Obama can utter a complete policy statement, several paragraphs long, which happens to be batshit-crazy, and he just gets a do-over, huh?

What likely happened, if you ask me, is that Obama just made this up on his own, and after the speech was over some aide took him aside and said, “Have you really thought through this whole civilian defense corps thing? It’s crazy.” And a few calls were made to the friendly media, and like magic it went down the memory hole, never to be spoken of again.

That’s the charitable explanation. The one I hope is true, because the other explanation is that he really means it, and they just took it out of the transcript because they don’t want to talk about it.

The best I’ve got? You mean aside from his inexperience, liberal politics, weak resume, associations with rather undesirable people, willingness to flip-flop on major policy positions, crazy economic policies, and incoherent foreign policy?

82

since he lives in Alberta, why would he be?I don’t know much about Alberta’s public school system.

But let’s be frank; the forced community service requirement in Ontario is a stupid thing, frequently circumvented, and pointless. Der Trihs is a hundred percent right; it devalues and exploits children and teenagers. If work needs doing and is worth doing, PAY SOMEONE TO DO IT.

83

I have to say I’m utterly baffled as to what Obama means by a civilian protection force that’s just as powerful and just as well-funded as the military. That would mean that this civilian protection force would have Abrams tanks, Apache helicopters, neutron bombs, ICBMs, bases all over the world, and an intelligence-gathering agency.

So he wants to have a…second military? But it’s civilian?

What am I missing here?

84

Your missing the first part of that quote.

Barack Obama “And we’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy. We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”

The Foreign Service is definitely integral to our national security, and has been woefully underfunded and underutilized in this administration. The Peace Corps can also be used to achieve national security in that helping countries achieve successful development means that they are less likely to become breeding grounds for terrorism. National security doesnt just mean pointing a gun at someone. Not all national security objectives require a military solution. Indeed, I would say most dont require the military. Diplomacy can work wonders when it is actually used. Nor do I see where you get that it would be an armed protective force.

And I dont think ‘just as well-funded’ means that their budgets must be equal, but that each agency should have all the funds it needs to accomplish their mission, be it $1 million or $1 billion.

I agree completely. I find it creepy is how quickly conservatives will wrap themselves in a flag (or wear one on their label) and go on and on about how great America is, but when they asked to serve that flag with more than just words, liberals become fascists. I find it creepy that conservatives have no problem reaping all the rewards and benefits provided by a stable, secure democratic government, but scream fascism when that government asks its citizens - its owners - to help serve that government to provide better benefits for its citizens and their communities. And to provide that service only indirectly by volunteering for non-profits, as opposed to more coercive ways our government has required in the past.

But I have no qualms with public service. I think we should have a civil service draft. I think once you are required to serve, you gain a better understanding of how hard it can be to provide some services, and how wasteful other areas are. Citizens would gain a better understanding of their government, or to put into ‘conservative’ terms, the owners would gain a better understanding of their company, and would be more likely to hold their managers accountable, i.e. their elected representatives and professional civil servants.

But of course that would require the populace to aspire to be more than mere consumers and employees of organizations that they have no ownership stake in.

You mean the government that was slashed and then starved by Reagan and Republican legislatures (with far too much help from Democrats also) so as become so incompetent that conservatives can then point out how ineffective government is? Tell me how competent would GE be if each department had their budgets cut and countless products killed, but still required to meet the same revenue targets as before the budget cut? That the majority of our governments (fed, state and local) function half as well as they do given the resources they are allowed to have amazes me.

85

Absolutely. The greatest problem with this nation is our lack of civic engagement at the city level. How many people know their city councilman? As far as can tell this only really happens in small towns where everyone knows everyone. Sure you have the politically engage who know, but the average person doesn’t.

It’s creepy to me that service for your country is lofty and noble as as long as you are killing people, but not if you are painting schools.

The bit about the Peace Corps and the Foreign Service is absolutely true. I have thought for a long time that the best way toward stability would be to identify countries that are ripe for infrastructure improvements and send in a team to coordinate a national works project that would build the necessary infrastructure for the entire nation. Work on a multinational force to do so. Have wealthier countries pick a nation that they can work with to help build necessary roads and data lines, irrigation and such. Not by force, but by agreement. This seems to be where Obama is taking us, and I am more than ready to go.

It beats the hell out of killing people.

86

Just guessing , but by military he means army rather than the whole military. So he pulls out the majority of the troops in Iraq, but keeps the funding in place. While the bayonet side of the force is going to be regenerated, the civillian auxillary force is used to rebuild Iraq, Burma, Afganistan and countrys that get hit with disasters in the future.

Then other citizen brigades get to take care of basically the same situation but with inner citys and american specific disaster sites.

I’m not thinking Heinlen with this approach, but Dean Ing does come to mind.

Declan

87

So he thinks more people should be sent to Iraq, is what you’re saying.

That’s a great platform to run on.

88

It was just a wild ass guess on my part actually, I have no idea if thats what he meant.

Declan

89

I think all of my fellow conservative type posters are missing the point entirely here. These mandatory student volunteers…why, they would be heroes! In fact, that’s a great name for what we have here, we should call it a “Hero Project”! Also, I don’t think that the potential of mandatory voluntarism can be realized in just one term in office. Obama should plan for just a slightly longer time frame, it’ll probably take at least five years for his Hero Project to bear fruit, so we should definitely call this a “Five-Year Plan”. What an exciting idea! Young people being forced to serve the state for Our-Own-Good. Brilliant! How can we lose? We need more Five-Year Plans!

90

How positively soviet ,lol.

I was just thinking when I read your post , that Obama is the nominee presumtive still , he has not actually been corinated yet for want of a better term.

I wonder if this is what Hillary was babbling about with that business about June. I can just see her egging on Obama for this vision thing and having a whole bunch of super delegates nervous.

I mean how hard could it be to twist her arm to come back into the race cause America needs her :slight_smile:

Declan

91

This isn’t so bad. The original draft of the speech called for a pony for every American. :rolleyes:

92

Now let’s not go taking any Great Leaps here…

93

Everyone who does an honest job performs public service. Mandatory service to the state is quite another issue.

94

Employment in private industry IS service to the community.

95

Anyone who’s ever worked for a boss who was under “real disincentives” for not getting 100% United Way participation (but theoretically is facing"no consequences" personally) is now wondering what color the sky is on your planet.

96

After listening to the speech it seems to me that he is saying that our existing intelligence agencies and state department needs to be used and have the assets it needs to keep us safe. I didn’t take it as a group of soccer moms rappelling down skyscrapers while spraying MP5s and tossing flashbangs.

Isn’t it possible that Sam in his genuine and powerful desire to be upset about something Obama said is grasping at straws here?

97

Only in the most abstract and worthless terms.

“Look, I work 40 hrs a week as an investment banker, I pay a lot of taxes. Lifeguards are paid with my money. So why should I save that drowning guy? I did my part.”

98

Dude, it’s a Cultural Revolution! Let a billion flowers bloom!
:smiley:

OK- here’s a serious issue- where do lots of U.S. kids who do volunteer work do it through? I think both the school system and church would be the main two areas.
OK- so a mainstream-church kid volunteers at the church food bank, while a Scientologist kid volunteers cleaning & running errands at the Narconon center. Mainstream-church bureaucrat counts the first one but not the second, OR secularist bureaucrat doesn’t count either… and the fight is on!

99

But I don’t want a pony!

Come the Revolution, you WILL want a pony!

100

The Intellectual Vanguard knows what is good for you – certainly much more than you yourself do.