We need mandatory National Service in the US

[brickbacon]

In these uncertain economic times, it would seem that mandatory National Service could go a long way towards solving some of the problems in this country. I propose that all able-bodied 18-year olds, and illegal immigrants willing to work as a path towards citizenship, should be required to make a 2-year commitment to our armed services, or in jobs vital to our national health. Those jobs could include things like infrastructure repair and providing social services.

First, I think the influx of cheap labor can be used to lower costs related to labor-intensive fields like healthcare and education. Although they couldn’t be teachers or doctors, these kids could preform basic health tests, grade scantrons, or put away library books. While some of these things are being done today, many of these tasks are given short shrift. We currently see many communities reducing library hours, mandating furloughs for government employees to save money, and even backlogs of rape kits (and other serious matters). Our top high school graduates could definitely help with many of these things.

Second, we are in dire need of infrastructure repair. Most people agree with that, but think the cost may be too high. By using cheaper labor to complete this work, I think more people would be on board with getting some of these things done.

Third, I think it will be good for national unity, and military preparedness to have people from different states, religious backgrounds, socioeconomic strata, and cultures interacting with one another, working towards a common goal. People live in such closed off like minded communities with relatively uniform networks. By exposing people to different types of people and ideas, I think we could go a long way towards emphasizing our similarities instead of our differences

Fourth, if we could develop a good online education system, we could have enlistees work towards completing pre-requisite college courses while serving. This would reduce the eventual costs of college for those who choose to go to college. For others, they can choose a job that would provide them with some vocational training.

So would this be a good idea?

[Daylate]

Second, we are in dire need of infrastructure repair. Most people agree with that, but think the cost may be too high. By using cheaper labor to complete this work, I think more people would be on board with getting some of these things done.

Good luck in getting the labor unions to go along with that one.

[Steve_MB]

Sounds like communism, comrade!

We already have a better system. We call it “get off your ass and earn a living”.

[msmith537]

Join up! Do your part!
Do you want to know more…

[Whack-a-Mole]

@Steve_MB

Sounds like communism, comrade!

We already have a better system. We call it “get off your ass and earn a living”.

Better than that even.

Use prison labor for cheap.

[Finagle]

Huh. So during my prime learning years, instead of learning computer programming, electrical engineering, math, and writing skills, I could have been digging postholes somewhere in dust bowl America for subsistence wages. Sounds enticing.

[Grumman]

@brickbacon

So would this be a good idea?

I think you could swap all examples of “cheap labour” in your OP for “slave labour”. Because really, that’s the mechanism by which you mean to better America: refusing to offer a wage people are willing to accept and instead simply forcing them to accept your unreasonable offer.

[Marley23]

As a ballpark figure I’m going to say there are 10 million kids age 18 to 20. Instead of going to college or entering the labor force for whatever pay they would normall get, they’re now doing those jobs for cheap. The people who were already doing those jobs professionally have to do something else. brickbacon, do you think there might be a few unintended consequences to your proposal?

[Justin_Bailey]

@brickbacon

First, I think the influx of cheap labor can be used to lower costs related to labor-intensive fields like healthcare and education. Although they couldn’t be teachers or doctors, these kids could preform basic health tests, grade scantrons, or put away library books. While some of these things are being done today, many of these tasks are given short shrift. We currently see many communities reducing library hours, mandating furloughs for government employees to save money, and even backlogs of rape kits (and other serious matters). Our top high school graduates could definitely help with many of these things.

Do you think governments are reducing library hours because there aren’t enough teenagers to put away the books? No, that’s happening because governments are deciding to lay off degreed librarians and support personnel.

[The_Peyote_Coyote]

Fuck no, brickbacon. As someone who was in the hospital last week, there is no way in any hell in any mythology that I want any kind of health test done by some untrained kid. I want it done by a professional.
Secondly, the second part of your proposal sounds like a further way to drive down wages and continue the Republicans’ war on the working class.
Back to the drawing board.

[voltaire]

@brickbacon

Although they couldn’t be teachers or doctors, these kids could preform basic health tests, grade scantrons, or put away library books.

Though I know I’m being a nitpicker, isn’t the whole point of scantrons is that they don’t need to be graded by a human?

[alphaboi867]

@brickbacon

…So would this be a good idea?

No, it’s a horrible idea. It’s also highly unconstitutional (well except for the military service part). The military would also hate it and do everything it could to keep conscripts from any job of actual importance unless they were willing to sign up for a longer commitment. Those that declined would probally end up doing stuff like stateside custodial work. And unwilling workers tend to do a really shitty job. If the only way you can get somebody to do a given job is threatening to send them to prison that job’s probally not worth doing in the first place (at least not at the pay you’re offering). You plan would also require a new federal agency to process NS conscripts, place them, probally new state agencies to coordinate with, a new bureaucracy to sort out deferements & exemptions (which will still be needed in some form), and additional resources for law enforcement to track down resisters& prosecute them (as well as new prisons to hold them). Where are you going to find the money to pay for all this? And you’d still need to pay wages, health benefits, room & board, workmen’s comp insurance, etc for millions of conscripts. Do you really think this will somehow be cheaper than paying people who actually want to do the jobs to work?

A voluntary national service program that pays for college tuition and/or vocational training in exchange for 2 years of service might be a good idea. Of course we basically already have that in the form of the military, though with a longer service commitment.

[Muffin]

Taking people out of the workforce and supporting them with tax dollars for a couple of years will reduce tax revenues and increase government spending, all for no good purpose, for people tend not to be very productive at forced labour.

[ataraxy22]

Isn’t this similar to programs in places like Germany, or for that matter a modern CCC of WPS?

[DianaG]

@alphaboi867

A voluntary national service program that pays for college tuition and/or vocational training in exchange for 2 years of service might be a good idea. Of course we basically already have that in the form of the military, though with a longer service commitment.

And a significantly greater chance of getting blowed up. I suspect that’s the dealbreaker for a lot of people.

[brickbacon]

Wow. Can’t say I expected such opposition. Either way, allow me to respond to some of the comments.

@Steve_MB

Sounds like communism, comrade!

We already have a better system. We call it “get off your ass and earn a living”.

This has nothing to to with National Service. The idea here is that the work is (largely) not being done because the market has deemed it not worthy of doing because there is no possibility of profits. Roads wouldn’t get built (among other things) if we just relied on the free market.

@Finagle

Huh. So during my prime learning years, instead of learning computer programming, electrical engineering, math, and writing skills, I could have been digging postholes somewhere in dust bowl America for subsistence wages. Sounds enticing.

As I stated in my post, this would be contingent upon developing a system where enlistee could obtain an education as well. More importantly, the vocational skills and work ethic they gain will be of value to them in the real world. For example, I recall hearing a story about a main reason for the number of innovative tech companies in Israel is due in large part to the identification of talent, and training of promising individuals as a part of the mandatory conscription they have.

Military Service

Due to the severity of the Israeli security situation over the years, all men and woman over 18 years old are obligated to serve a mandatory service in one of the Israeli security organizations. Men have to serve three years, while woman serve 18-21 month although the woman mandatory service is much more loosely enforced. (IDF) This compulsory military service provides “practical technical experience and stresses the importance of effective teamwork.” Many of the high-tech and entrepreneurial teams previously served together in IDC units. (8)

Another cite.

The United States has MIT, Stanford, and a handful of other academic hothouses that nurture the talent and research from which many high-tech powerhouses emerge. In Israel, the military, much to its own discomfort, increasingly plays that role. Since the creation of Israel in 1948, the military has compensated for its lack of resources and manpower with brainpower. Particularly in the past 20 years, the IDF has invested billions of dollars in developing technological warfare.

All this technological ferment has catapulted Israel into the front ranks of global tech powers — and transformed an economy that just a decade ago was a disaster. There are now more startups in Israel than there are anywhere outside Silicon Valley. Israel, a country of 6 million people, ranks third in the world in the number of Nasdaq-listed companies, behind the United States and Canada.

So, your concerns are not really valid. More particularly, we see one country already reaping the benefits of programs like the one I am proposing; and it’s not at the expense of higher education, or economic progress.

@Grumman

I think you could swap all examples of “cheap labour” in your OP for “slave labour”. Because really, that’s the mechanism by which you mean to better America: refusing to offer a wage people are willing to accept and instead simply forcing them to accept your unreasonable offer.

Fair point, although they would be paid. Either way, I am not sure we have a way of getting the things done that we want/need to get done without something similar. The reality is that there is more work that needs to be done than people willing to pay for it. We all suffer when we don’t address this. That being said, I understand your concerns, but telling people they need to sacrifice in order to take advantage of the things this country has is not akin to slavery AT ALL.

@Marley23

As a ballpark figure I’m going to say there are 10 million kids age 18 to 20. Instead of going to college or entering the labor force for whatever pay they would normall get, they’re now doing those jobs for cheap. The people who were already doing those jobs professionally have to do something else. brickbacon, do you think there might be a few unintended consequences to your proposal?

They would still go to college. Ideally for a shorter period of time, at a reduced cost. Again, these are jobs that are largely not being done. I am not advocating we replace large numbers of active workers, I am saying we should direct resources to places where the results are not what we expect. Even so, I am sure there are unintended consequences. However, I can’t foresee any that make the proposal not worth attempting.

[Ludovic]

@msmith537

Join up! Do your part!
Do you want to know more…

@alphaboi867

If the only way you can get somebody to do a given job is threatening to send them to prison that job’s probally not worth doing in the first place (at least not at the pay you’re offering).

Doesn’t have to be prison, just tie it to the right to vote

[Typo_Negative]

@brickbacon

The idea here is that the work is (largely) not being done because the market has deemed it not worthy of doing because there is no possibility of profits. Roads wouldn’t get built (among other things) if we just relied on the free market.

Roads get built all the time in the free market.

If it’s a private road, it is paid for by private citizens. If it is a public road, it is paid for by taxes. In either case, their is high value on the labor involved and a lot of private companies get a pretty good profit for doing it. They generally compete for these jobs because they are profitable (usually).

There is no shortage of labor in the Medical Field that I am aware of.

[Chessic_Sense]

We could even build camps in which to concentrate all these workers. Free housing! I’m glad brickbacon came up with this solution, finally.

@brickbacon

The reality is that there is more work that needs to be done than people willing to pay for it.

You have a very weird definition of “need”. “Things we need” and “things we’re not willing to pay for” have no overlap.

[Marley23]

@brickbacon

They would still go to college. Ideally for a shorter period of time, at a reduced cost.

Ah, I missed your fourth point. So you’re also proposing we put a lot of college professors and ancillary employees out of work.

Again, these are jobs that are largely not being done.

I agree there is a lot of infrastructure work that needs to be done, but do you actually think no one is administering tests at hospitals, clinics, and doctors’ offices? You think nobody is grading tests? (That one in particular screams “pointless busywork.”) And do you think the problem with infrastruture is that there is nobody who can pave a road? The problem is a lack of money being devoted to those projects. They’re necessary, but not cheap, at least in aggregate. I’m not an expert on those things but I don’t think the unskilled labor is the hard part. I also don’t think that jobs like repairing bridges and dams can be farmed out to unprepared teenagers. And what about all the supervisors and support these kids would need? Aren’t those people being taken away from other jobs?

I am not advocating we replace large numbers of active workers

I think you are and don’t know it.

@spooje

There is no shortage of labor in the Medical Field that I am aware of.

I thought there is a shortage of primary care doctors - let’s have the high school kids handle that! - and also a shortage of nurses. The nurse shortage is partly being handled by bringing workers from overseas, but I don’t think there are enough of them to fill the gap. I can see reasons to create incentives for teenagers and recent college grads to do that, but I don’t think forcing them to do it is the way to go.