Obama's Pass the Buffett Rule

I’m not so naive where I don’t understand that politicians bend the truth, make misrepresentations, selectively take things out of context, etc all in the name of politics. However, I see not even the slightest shred of truth in this.

Obama: Pass the Buffett Rule

Without making a single statement about the Buffett Rule itself, how is this “calculator” not just spitting out lie after lie to promote populist rage.

The basics of this are that you enter in your income, whether you are single, married, or married with kids, and then this calculator tells you what a typical household like yours pays in income taxes.

It then compares this rate to Mitt Romney’s effective tax rate for 2010 of 13.9%.

Here is a hint, as far as I can tell, it is impossible for this calculator to show a rate lower than Romney’s.

Here is another calculator that’s free from Turbo Tax.

Turbo Tax Calculator

The turbo tax calculator is obviously more complex, so I decided to only adjust income, single or married, and for kids I always put two kids under 16. Also, turbo tax doesn’t calculate an effective tax rate (it shows a marginal rate but no effective rate), so I just divide the tax calculated by income to determine the rate. Let’s make some comparisons.

Single with $20,000 income
Obama says 15.5%
Turbo Tax says 5.7%

Single with $40,000 income
Obama says 19.6%
Turbo Tax says 10.4%

Single with $100,000 income
Obama says 24.5%
Turbo Tax says 18.9%

Married (no kids) with $40,000 income
Obama says 16.4%
Turbo Tax says 5.7%

Married (no kids) with $80,000 income
Obama says 20.5%
Turbo Tax says 10.4%

Married (with kids) with $80,000 income
Obama says 16.6%
Turbo Tax says 6.5%

Married (with kids) with $120,000 income
Obama says 19.3%
Turbo Tax says 11.8%

Again, I used no deductions when calculating taxes with the Turbo Tax calculator, so the reality is that tax rates would be even lower than it shows.

Now, another nice trick about the Obama calculator is that if you put in a real low income, it always kicks out a rate of 20.6% saying this is what a middle class tax rate is. It doesn’t specifically state it is your rate, but clearly a lot of people would not catch on to that. So, if I say I am single with $10,000 in income, or married with $30,000 in income, or married with kids with $50,000 in income then the calculator just throws out a rate of 20.6%. Realize that the rate calculated by Turbo Tax for these scenarios is (-2.3%), 3.7%, and (-1.4%).

Of course I have no idea how they think a middle-class tax rate is 20.6%. Here is a link from the Tax Policy Center on effective tax rates by income category.

So, obviously it is difficult to say what counts as middle class. I’m going to make a real broad category and say that we should look at this in quintiles calling bottom quintile lower class, top quintile upper class, and the middle three quintiles as middle class. This would of course have 60% of American’s as middle class, but nevertheless, the effective tax rate for those three middle quintiles is (-4.2%), 4.1%, and 8.2%. The top quintile is 17.3%. The highest 95% - 99% of income earners is at 19.2%. How in the world does Obama say a middle-class tax rate is 20.6%?

So, here we are. I am pitting Obama for lying. There is no bending of facts here. This is not a slip of the tongue in a speech. He’s not picking out certain statistics that misrepresent. He has designed his website specifically to lie.

My question for supporters of Obama and this Buffett Tax Proposal, if it is such a good idea, why does he have to blatantly lie to promote it?

Anyone care to disagree?

That might be your problem. The difference between a marginal tax rate and an effective tax rate is huge.

You are misunderstanding my point. I am saying that if you want to compare the rates, you simply cannot look at the rate on Obama’s calculator and compare to Turbo Tax’s calculator as Obama has an effective rate and Turbo Tax has a marginal rate; therefore, I calculated an effective rate for Turbo Tax based simply on the tax divided by income so an apples-to-apples comparison can be done. In other words, don’t get fooled into looking at the rate that Turbo Tax shows, it is a marginal rate and should not be used to compare to Obama’s effective rate.

I didn’t see it mention Federal Income Tax anywhere. My federal tax rate is around 20%, even more if you count the employer contribution to payroll taxes.

I think their app is broken. I entered amounts from 10k to 250k and it always said middle class tax rate 20.9.

Well, I just compared both calculators against my taxes.

Turbo Tax says I paid: 12.9% in taxes

Obama’s site says I paid: 20.1% in taxes

They are both about right depending how you look at it.

If ALL I include in calculating my percentage is Federal income tax then I paid about 12.9% to the Feds (exactly what Turbo Tax says).

However, if I include my income tax as well as social security payments and medicare taxes withheld I get 18.6% paid to the government.

If I include taxes paid to my state then I paid 23.3% in taxes to the government (of course different states vary but we can see with state taxes not included and included I bracket the Obama web site’s numbers so it may be making a average guess about state taxes).

I guess the trick here is to know exactly what Mitt Romney’s taxes went to. Did he pay Medicare and all that other stuff? Does it include state taxes paid? I dunno…

The Buffett Rule is a federal income tax proposal. The Romney rate is his federal income tax rate. What do you think it is referring to if not the federal income tax rate?

Also, my rate is 26.83% dividing my total tax on line 61 of my Form 1040 divided by my adjusted gross income on line 37. It doesn’t make one bit of difference on the point that Obama is lying though.

Until and unless we know what is in that tax calculation I am not sure we can say whether it is an outright lie or a bad fudge or pretty close to the mark.

Total Taxes paid per 2010 Form 1040 (line 60) of $3,009,766 divided by adjusted gross income (line 37) of $21,646,507 equals the stated rate of 13.9%. Link to Romney’s 2010 return.

This should be fairly easy for every person to calculate and see just how far off this Obama calculator is. For 2011, these items are on lines 61 and 37 of the Form 1040.

It’s probably his campaign manager rather than Obama himself actually lying. Not that it substantially alters anything.

Who cares? Obama lied. He’s probably lied about everything. He’s lying right now.

I’m still going to vote for him if for no other reason than he’s not a Republican. I wouldn’t vote for a Republican if my life depended on it. They are scum and deserve nothing more than to be driven swordless into Palestine.

This isn’t even about the election. He is the president right now, promoting this proposal right now, and lying to get supprt for it right now. The guy’s job right now is to govern. Unless you think he is perpetually running for office and never supposed to actually govern, this matters.

You’re forgetting the 7.65% for payroll taxes. That brings your numbers in line with the reported Obama numbers. Obama is talking about all federal taxes, not just income tax.

You should probably vote for the politician that never lies.

Oh, right.

Well, Mitt only lies half the time, when he totally denies what he said the day before.

Also, payroll taxes are capped, so that if you make a billion dollars they you pay less of your total income as a percentage.

It caps around a hundred grand, so if you’re paying 6.2% at 100k, at 1 million it only is .62%.

First, payroll taxes are 5.65% (not 7.65%) for 2010 and 2011. Second, you can’t just add that to your tax rate. Those taxes reduce your taxable income.

See…seems simple enough but when it comes to taxes the complexities elude me.

According to your Tax Policy Center link I should be paying (all Federal Taxes) 16.7%. I paid 18.6% in total (looking at my tax form now). So kinda close. Obama’s site is greater still at 20.1% for me but 1.5% is not as dramatic a fudge as you would make it out to be.

Mitt Romney should be in the 24.5% category yet you calculated 13.9%. That is a much more dramatic difference.

In the end this shit is mysterious. IIRC some newspaper (or magazine) had 40 professional tax preparers do the same family taxes (they were all given the same details). They got 40 different answers on what the family should pay.

It’s not clear that there’s any lying going on here.

Everyone that’s just saying “yeah, but republicans are worse.” You’re all douchebags.

The posters that are trying to figure out where the discrepancy comes from, thanks for fighting ignorance.