I stand corrected.
…for the skiiny on world rates of obesity. It seems that even in the third world, obesity rates are rising! The reason: people switching from whole-grain meal breads to breads made with refined flours! Also, the relative price of sugar is very low.
So, this has nothing to do with the USA per se, except that food is if anything , even more cheap here.
Basically, we humans evolved to be hunters and grain-gatherers. If we stuck to eating lean (wild) meat, berries and grains, we would have evry little problems with weight. Now that we wat refined sugars and starches, we gain weight.
Oh, and riding in a car instead of walking doesb’nt help either!
This is the Straight Dope, yosemite, not a cocktail party. Last I checked, its primary purpose is not to be “nice, compassionate, feel-good, and politically correct.” Its purpose is to fight ignorance. And sometimes one must resort to brutal honesty in order to successfully fight the ignorance. This is one of those times.
So let me repeat the brutal truth: 99% of fat people are fat because of lifestyle decisions they have made. The have chosen to eat too much food. They have chosen to eat the wrong kinds of food. And/or they have chosen not to exercise. And while they are free to make these decisions, they must also pay the consequences. (It would be immoral to force anyone else to pay the consequences.) This is called personal accountability.
Ignorance is not an excuse, since the average American is inundated with “health information” on a nearly daily basis. The average person knows eating too much and not exercising will make them fat. To assume otherwise is to assume most fat people are uneducated morons. They’re not. They’ve simply chosen an unhealthy lifestyle. Why they’ve chosen this path is another discussion.
tdn: Sure, it’s possible that some of the hoots and jeers were not mean. But there have been direct comments through the years that could be nothing else than mean, and I certainly did not imagine them.
If you do a search on these boards, you’ll find multiple threads where fat people will tell you of strangers coming up to them making “mooing” sounds, and so forth. The level of meanness directed at fat people cannot be understated. It’s not just me. And I haven’t even received the worst of it. Some peoples’ accounts of their experiences make my hair stand on end. Pretty eye-bogglingly mean.
There’s no other way around it: people are mean. They are mean to many of us, and we are not imagining it.
Duke, I explained it earilier, but apparently not well enough: one can be politically incorrect and “tell it like it is” and not be mean. I never said that everyone on this thread was being mean by discussing this. The discussion of obesity is not necessarily mean. But oozing contempt and obviously having disgust for fat people, and being heartlessly blunt, (like in the example The Mermaid gave of someone going up to someone and saying, “Yer fat!”), is mean. There’s no attempt to elevate or help someone when you go up to them and say something like that. That’s like going up to an unattractive person and saying, “Geez, yer ugly!” It’s mean. And people do this, all the time, not because they want to help the fat or ugly person get better or because they care, but because they are mean.
Oh, blah blah blah. I’m not talking about your lack of political correctness. I already said that. I have a friend who is far more politically incorrect than you, I’ll wager, and he doesn’t ooze disgust and contempt for fat people. You do.
But never mind, I know you’ll never get it. The mean ones often say that they use “brutal honesty” when all they are doing is being mean. They delude themselves in that way.
If your politically incorrect friend suddenly started saying “most fat people are fat because they choose to be, at some level,” would you still think he was nice, or would he then be a big meanie too?
Not necessarily. But he would be mean if he called overweight women “fat asses,” which Crafter_Man has done on this thread. See? That’s gratuitous. That doesn’t address the issue of why people are obese. It also demonstrates some level of contempt.
How many freakin’ times do I have to repeat it? It’s not necessarily the discussion of fatness or its causes. Indicators of meanness can be things like: being extra impatient with fat people—even fat people they don’t really know much about (don’t know their stories), assuming that all fat people are probably liars, oozing contempt towards fat people (saying “fat asses” would be a good indicator of that), and going up to someone on the street and saying, “Geez, yer fat.” (Not that I’m saying that Crafter_Man has done that last one—I wouldn’t know one way or the other.)
[QUOTE=yosemiteDuke, I explained it earilier, but apparently not well enough: one can be politically incorrect and “tell it like it is” and not be mean. I never said that everyone on this thread was being mean by discussing this. The discussion of obesity is not necessarily mean. But oozing contempt and obviously having disgust for fat people, and being heartlessly blunt, (like in the example The Mermaid gave of someone going up to someone and saying, “Yer fat!”), is mean. [/quote]
Of course it’s mean. Nobody has said in this thread that it wasn’t. It’s just as bad as racism or homophobia or any other type of lookism
Now hold it just one moment. Obviously people who go around “mooing” at the overweight (jeez, how old are these people? Two?) are doing it out of meanness. But nobody in this thread has been defending that behavior. Crafter_Man, while I disagree with the way he’s been writing in this thread, has said nothing of the sort. Here’s what he said that you considered “mean”:
And you know what? He’s right. Brutal, but right. I have been fat too, and am still overweight. It’s because I made, and continue to make, bad decisions about what I consume. My ex made bad decisions about what she ate too, and nearly died for it. We both had to learn that the decisions we were making about what we ate were unhealthy and wrong. It was a hard, hard process–and I’m not buying that willpower alone did it for either of us, that’s against everything the 12-step process is about, after all–but it was a process we had to take.
It’s kind of funny that you use the word “mean.” My ex, when she was DYING, mind you, told her mom that the “mean doctors” (her own words) were trying to make her eat. Yes, those very same “mean doctors” who ended up saving her life. And that’s the problem with the concept that people always say things to be “mean” to be overweight. Sometimes they’re trying to help but don’t know the right words to say. Sometimes they’re nosy people who just aren’t realizing that they’re hurting people. Sometimes by fortune they have lost weight easily and wrongly assume others can too. In my ex-wife’s case, it was a doctor who told her, “If you don’t eat, you’re going to die.” I can see how they all can look mean. That does NOT mean they are trying to be.
I would never tell anybody they need to lose weight. Neither would OA or any serious support organization. I do not mock the overweight nor anorexic. If my above post gets tarred with the “mean” brush (I’ve already been tarred with ignorant brush, apparently – “I explained it earilier, but apparently not well enough”), it will only be because…well, God knows why, as I don’t.
I brought it up because several were wondering why behaved in this way. I gave the reason why. Because they are mean. I never said that everyone on this thread was mean.
I never said they were. I was just explaining why people behave in this way. (Hint: because they are mean. ;))
He has called obese women “fat asses.” That’s mean.
There’s more, but I’m tired of repeating it over, and over, and frickin’ over again. And just to cut more questions off at the pass: NO, the mere discussion of obesity and its causes is not necessarily “mean.” It takes more than that: for example, a contemptuous attitude and saying stuff like “fat asses.”
At last, I come bearing information!
It was becoming clear to me that in 6 pages of this thread, not one person here was really informed on the issues, at least as far as bariatrics is concerned. So I asked a question of the secretary to the chief of bariatric surgery.
The question was if our baritric patients could get thin by diet and exercise alone. The answer was yes, they could, but none of them will. 100% will fail to keep the weight off. (I found a web site that said the figure was 95%.) I find that statistic a little hard to believe (and very discouraging), but there it is.
When asked the reason, genetics, psychological issues, and lack of nutritional education were cited. These patients, BTW, are very obese. The average weight is 305.
Not the answer I was hoping for, but I’ll put stock in the knowledge of someone in the field.
Now I must go weep. I just found out that my friend and former coworker was killed in a car crash. Dammit.
tdn, let me say that I am sorry to hear about your loss. 
yosemite, I’m not going to defend Crafter_Man and his attacks on the overweight. But it’ll be hard to convince me you’re not just as riled about his comments about extra weight as the result of “lifestyle decisions,” comments which you have said “carry a whiff of mean,” and which I have said carry a whiff of being brutally honest. You’ve also suggested that other posters here have been “mean,” which frankly I’m not seeing here.
I have known an alcoholic who swears up and down he does not have a drinking problem, and that other people are liars and, well, “mean” for suggesting just that. Are people being mean to him? Well, maybe. But I also know it’s a sign of addiction that the addict thinks that those who are genuinely concerned about his or her problems are trying to be harmful.
And that, yosemite, is what I genuinely fear in your case. When I was young, I thought the whole school was calling me “nerd” behind my back. When I look back now, though, I realize that it was actually only a handful of insecure, selfish kids. The thought that everyone might be against me depressed me and prevented me from seeking help. If I’d come to the realization that, actually, most people were in fact not mean to me, high school would have been a much better place. You could just as easily say “most people are not mean to the overweight.” That, I think, might be the first step.
Tdn, sorry to hear about your friend too. That’s so sad.
No. You don’t know me, you don’t know my background. If you did, you’d know that I’m surrounded by “brutally honest” and it doesn’t usually give me much pause. My dad was the King of “brutally honest” and I loved him dearly. This is not what this is about. It’s about Crafter_Man’s obvious hang-ups about fat people, not his stance on “personal responsibility.” If it were that, why would I single out him and nobody else? Plenty of people here have had “blunt” and “brutally honest” things to say about the obese, have they not?
Uh, wasn’t there the guy who suggested something about parents offering up their fat kid to be hit like a piñata, or something? That was on this thread. I could dig up the exact quote if you like.
You don’t know me. You don’t know jack shit about it. I am not trying to come down hard on you, but honestly, you have no clue, you’re just supposing. I know you mean well, but, it’s based on zero information. Nowhere, nowhere, ever, will you find me “excusing” my weight or denying that I’m a fat chick. I don’t generally do that. I’m over trying to “explain” to others why I am fat, because it’s none of their damned business.
But just so you know, I don’t think my personal situation is very complicated; I don’t think the solutions available to me are very diffcult or daunting. (i.e., I need to eat better and exercise more.) Besides, it’s nobody else’s business, is it? And anyway, none of that has anything to do with someone being contemptuous or disdainful to me, or anyone else, based on something that is none of their business.
Oh please. Spare me. I’ve been out of high school for ages now. Many people are mean outside of high school too, you know.
However, I know that not all people are mean. But many people have prejudices and are capable of being quite mean. Like I keep saying, just pull up some old threads about obesity and read some other accounts from fat people, telling of some of the treatment they’ve received. Being mean to fat people is not at all rare and it’s more acceptable than being mean to other groups of people.
Please. :rolleyes: You gonna give me all the “steps” I need for “recovery”? Spare me.
Let’s put it this way: my declarations on this matter are my own version of “politically incorrect” and “brutally honest.” I’m just callin’ 'em like I see 'em, see? People are mean. However, I don’t look over my shoulder, expecting everyone to treat me like shit. It’s not a constant thing. But I am not all that shocked by meanness, because it’s been around for a long time.
Some people are never the targets of this particular brand of meanness so they refuse to believe it exists to the degree that it does (are you in that category? I don’t know). Or, they try to explain or rationalize it away. (My mom did that all the time. “Oh, they’re trying to inspire you to be better, by treating you like crap! They are actually trying to help!”) I never bought that line of reasoning. Some people enjoy being mean, being gratuitously blunt, for no reason other than they get their kicks or because they believe that fat people “deserve” mean treatment for being seen outside while fat, or for being “gluttons,” or whatever.
yosemite, I’m sorry. My living with someone with a dangerous eating disorder wrecked me, making me want to help people who don’t need help. I was wrong to put myself in your shoes, and I apologize.
It’s okay, I could tell that you meant well. No problem. 
Thanks for the condolances, guys. Twenty seven years old. What a fucking waste.
Expect an email from me.
And please accept my condolences on your loss as well.
Well many women do have fat asses, as do many men. But I get your point, and apologize for the poor choice of words. So am I still a meanie? 
Apology accepted.
Well . . .
I believe you have other “issues,” but apologizing for the “fat ass” comment is a very classy step and I’m glad to see you do it.
Thanks, yosemite. I just want to see you around here to knock around the heads of chumps who know jack about copyright law
Kudos to Crafter for his apology, too. See, we can all get along here, even in The Pit!
Such as?
Duke: Thanks.
Ooh, somehow I knew you’d ask that, all surprised and with wide-eyed astonishment.
And you know what? I already addressed some of your “issues” (and specifically called them “issues”) waaaaay back on page 4. You ignored my post then so you’ll forgive me if I don’t feel inclined to repeat it again. Kinda late, y’know?