Obscene gestures: one finger vs. two

In the U.S. the “middle finger” is the main obscene finger gesture, while in the U.K. it is using two fingers in a “V” pattern. Which is the more commonly used internationally? In two-finger areas, is the middle finger still considered obscene and vice versa? And what areas are both finger gestures considered non-obscene?

An Australian perspective (actually just my perspective - I don’t know whether my experience is the same as others in this wide brown land):

When I was young (the '70s) it was exclusively the British 2-finger salute. Now it seems to be exclusively the American middle-finger. I guess the two must have co-existed for a time.

Both would still be recognised as having negative connotations.

The milder form, a thumb thrust upwards, has long since disappeared entirely. The last time I saw it was the early '80s, by which time it was seen as being only something an old person would do.

I read somewhere that the middle-finger-only salute is universally recognized, having substantially the same meaning everywhere.

The two-finger salute is definitely less used as a form of objection, as so many of different nationalities use it to indicate ‘2’. The one-finger salute seems to only be accepted by Greek economics guys :wink:

Not sure I have ever seen the 2 finger one used in that form as described it would seem to be the ‘peace’ gesture.

I would say, from observation, that one finger is overtaking two as the visual insult of choice here in the UK.

The “coffee shake” gesture is also extremely common, especially between drivers. My guess is that it is more easily seen than a single finger.

I think Hollywood gets most of the credit/blame for the spread of the one finger salute, but it might also be because it is a VERY deliberate gesture. The position is uncomfortable compared to most other hand positions, and that means you can be fairly sure that if it’s displayed to you it wasn’t an accident, and anyone you give it to won’t be confused as to whether you meant to give it.

After reading the above, I think that we in the UK may be too lazy to extend the **middle **finger. I suspect that it will generally be the **index **finger that is displayed.

In Ireland and the UK, the two finger salute (back of the hand faces the insulted) is predominantly used vs the single middle finger. However, the middle finger is also understood as a “F you”, but only used secondary or by foreigners.

In Germany the single middle finger is the preferred method to convey the “F you” aka “Leck mich” “Fick Dich” or “Arschloch” message. The two fingers mean 2 beer please or V for victory (requires the inside of the hand pointing out).

More information can be found here or here at Obscene gestures

As I understand it, the traditional two-finger salute is the back of the hand toward the insulted, and thumb sticking up between the index and middle fingers.

Because of that, and because of the utility of using the first two fingers to signify the number 2, the letter V, the peace sign and heaven only knows what else, the one-finger salute seems much more direct.

I have seen variants of the British V-sign which involve the tongue. This suggests a rather different origin from the old (I suspect Victorian/bowdlerised) explanation about the French cutting off archers’ fingers, and seems a more likely explanation for its offensiveness.

The back-of-hand thing seems to be a relatively modern distinction (though it’s one I grew up with.) Churchill doesn’t seem to have understood the difference.

Churchill’s use was, I believe, the old joke: See this? <holding up index finger> Ignore it! <raises up middle finger> . With the palm forward, it was V for Victory, meant for the British public. With the back of the hand forward, it was meant for Hitler

Here’s a video from the Australian Punk/Celtic band “The Rumjacks”. They use both gestures (at end of video).

LOL. I had no idea that the V sign was considered an obscene gesture in the UK. In the US that is the peace symbol.

It wasn’t internationally universal when the Pueblo was captured by the North Koreans in 1968. I’ll bet they have caught on by now, even without the Internet.

Which gesture is that?

I would say that the two-fingered gesture is dying out in the UK, and the middle finger is more common among younger people.

As a young Englishman i would have to agree with Kiyoshi. I have never seen anyone my age (23) or younger use the ‘V’ sign, even though my parents generation seem to use almost exclusively the ‘V’ sign.
I imagine this is due to the Americanisation of the UK.

To clear up any confusion: V with knuckles facing yourself is peace, V with knuckles facing your target person (or other thing) is ‘fuck you’. - According to English convention

The “coffee shake” gesture is the one in which a hand is extended with the fingers loosely curled. The hand is then moved up and down to imitate the action of shaking a tin of coffee beans. It also imitates the action of a man masturbating.

Mainly used when driving because it is no good shouting “WANKER” at someone who can’t hear you.

cf: Wanker - Wikipedia