The accumulation of wealth in America fundamentally changes the country. The accumulation of fortunes is not a reward for hard work . It is due to manipulating the system through the purchasing of politicians. They get pols to cut their taxes, give them tax money for sending jobs abroad and lots of policies, that help them while hurting the people.
Huge fortunes protected by ending inheritance taxes will end up with royalty. There already are rich people manipulating the system to their advantage. The Koch Bros, and Murdoch are examples. They wish to make the top 1 percent run the government . They are getting their way so far.
It is not about the people wanting to take wealth from the rich. It is about saving America from those who want to change it and run it to their personal advantage.
Alec Baldwin just visited the Occupy folks and tweets: “OWS needs to coalesce around some legislative policy. The ‘occupy’ strategy may be an effective one. But what can each entity agree on?”
When Alec Baldwin has good sensible advice for you, it really *is *time to regroup and think things through.
Yes, I do. I think that banks can be regulated to control their size under the lifeboat theory: you’re free generally to do as you please, but if we’re both in a lifeboat, you are no longer free to practice your Russian dancing audition, because you run the risk of capsizing me along with yourself.
The game is rigged brother. We we are not playing on a level field and the rules of the game do not promote a more more just society or even a more prosperous society.
Welcome to the revolution brother.
There are policies that are being pushed at every occupation. Do the tea baggers have a single stated purpose? Do political parties exist for a single purpose? The occupations are thematically in agreement.
The occupation has changed the dialogue. All we talked about before was the cutting and slashing of programs for the poor . We were going to save money by letting our needy drift .
There actually is discussion about income inequality nowadays. There is talk of taxing zillionaires . That was pushed aside not long ago. The occupations are giving me hope.
There are a couple of facts about Occupy Wall Street, the 99%, that most would agree with. First, these are angry working class and professional people. Anger is the key word here. We feel we are getting screwed. Second, money in government has angered people in all walks of life against Wall Street, Democrats and Republicans. Third, specific issues have been avoided leaving people upset with gridlock in the whole system of government and business. Fourth, this is not anger against capitalism, it is anger toward all political labels for not making our Republic work any more. Fifth, the same people who messed up the economy in 2008 are still running the show now, and no one has gone to jail for the financial crisis. Where are the Republicans and Democrats - bought and paid for?
A lot of opinions are being thrown around, this utube is from Australian David Icke who is best known for his view that banks place us in slavery with credit. I’ll admit some of this is over my head, but the point is ideas like Icke’s help define the anger of the OWS/99% movement. And if you stretch it, the Tea Party would be included too. If you are truly interested in what is going on review Icke’s position and decide for yourself. I am not totally sold on Icke’s point of view, but it did help me focus.
David Icke - Essential Knowledge For A Wall Street Protestor.(mirrored) - YouTube
David Icke is the guy who thinks the world is ruled by lizards that are in the shape of humans. He thinks George Bush and the Queen of England are actually reptiles. I don’t think he should be used as a representative of the movement.
My “Occupy” (and affiliated groups) are working on a “Move Your Money” campaign, “teach-ins”, a possible “Move Your Mortgage” campaign, and voter registration drives. The movement is maturing and I’m glad to be a part of it! I’m especially impressed with how we are connecting with others to make a larger impact. Heck, even the Pope gave us ‘props’ today . We have the moral high ground and the popular support, so change is coming.
There is a whole literature on inequality and income mobility, which Scylla alluded to earlier. There’s no shortage of solid well thought out proposals. What is lacking is a political movement to back it up. A big part of the reason for this is that monied lobbyists have weak countervailing power. In other words, unions kept the political system honest from 1940-1980. Since then, the benefits of economic growth have been allocated to a tiny sliver of the population.
And it’s not because the overlords are competent. Hardly. Look at CEO pay packages. Yes they are humungous and growing. But option grants never are set up to control for general rises in the stock market. CFOs have known of CAPM theory for decades: they use it to make capital allocation decisions. But despite multiple academic papers, it never finds a way into executive compensation. Instead, pay packages rise with the stock market, and when the market falls the contracts are rewritten. Heads they win, tails the shareholders lose.
It’s a scam. Now it’s not unusual for the elite to game the system: IMF analysts such as Simon Johnson see crony capitalism all the time. The difference in the US is that it’s backed by an ideology of market fundamentalism. This enables a tiny sliver of the population to redirect the fruits of economic growth from the teachers, firefighters, workers and the engineers and middle management and heck the shareholders and pension holders as well. This protest is mild: it opposes things that are basically indefensible, for example the carried interest loophole and the one-sided risks taken by institutions that are too big to fail. Yet up until now there has been precious little effort to resurrect Glass Stegall. It’s so predictable: Republicans take a chain saw to so-called red tape then bail out their pals when things get sticky. And in the aftermath, instead of re-imposing regulations they make wholly incredible promises never to bail anyone out again. It’s ludicrous.
OBTW: TARP was a good idea: it kept the Lesser Depression from becoming a greater one. But if we had a functioning system we would be discussing how to fix a financial structure wholly lacking in long run solvency.
It has the support of 37% of Americans in the most recent poll, and the support of the guy who fights against the use of condoms to prevent AIDs, thinks women who are raped shouldn’t be allowed to have an abortion, and thinks homosexual acts are a sin. That’s the moral high ground and popular support?
Cyclone: Really, read the wikipedia article on David Icke and get to us about how great his ideas are.
67% of New Yorkers agree with OWS. For some reason conservative anecdotal evidence doesn’t sway them. http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/17/345914/poll-nyc-voters-ows/
Interestingly, half of all blue collar whites have favorable views:
http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/10/20/348792/poll-blue-collar-whites-support-occupy-wall-street/
As for the general population, this poll shows very favorable and somewhat favorable sentiments summing to 54%, relative to 23% unfavorable. That’s a 2:1 margin, leaving a quarter with no opinion.
But there is also the matter of one crank who supports OWS, by the name of Icke. But this poster supports both OWS and the lizard people, so my opinion cancels his.
“New Yorkers” are not a good proxy for the American public.
You’re poll is old. Newer ones show less support. That one is dated 10/21/11.
There are nurses at occupy Detroit. They have been giving medical aid to the homeless in Detroit. We have been feeding the homeless and giving them clothes. There are lots of donations . People are dropping them off all day long. there is even a homeless dog that wandered in and stayed . He gets fed and petted.
Holy shit! You’re a canine who can use the internet.That’s impressive as hell!!! And things are making more sense now.
Spelling corrected. The poll is old but I suspect the wording mattered more. Yours measured “Support” which is a higher bar than “View somewhat favorably”. “View very favorably” was at 25%. I’m not surprised that “Support” was pegged in between. Of course a time series with similar wording would reveal trends, but I haven’t seen anything like that.
Hold still so I can give you a good pat in the back.
BTW, the pictures I’ve seen of the “Occupy Detroit” have shown Lilly-white crowds from a city that’s overwhelmingly black.
Perhaps you can tell me why the blacks haven’t Bern listening to smart white liberals like yourself.
A lot of folks don’t listen to us. Who listens to you?
I dunno, I see a lot more people of color in OWS pictures than I did at Tea Party event pics.
Still, this thread is illuminating. OWS critics never criticize the substance of the protest: they can’t. The careful reconstruction of Glass Stegal, the installation of the Buffett Rule, the establishment of consumer financial protection agency and the calling out of CEOs for outsized pay checks tied to rising markets and rewriting of contracts when they fall -this is part of what the OWS heroes fight for. Meanwhile Republicans in Washington are doing everything they can to gut the economy in 2012. They don’t even try to recruit hack-experts to endorse their job plans anymore. Last week House Majority Leader Cantor cancelled his speech on inequality after learning that it would be open to the public. And the latest Presidential candidate of the month pushes a preposterously regressive tax plan.
OWS opponents know they don’t have a leg to stand on. All they lack is shame.