I think “support” is the proper term to use since the poster I was responding to said the Occupiers had the “support” of the American people.
Anyway, things are fluid and polls might change weekly on this new movement. I would not say it’s accurate to say that it has the “support” of the American people. It has some support, but not a majority support.
I have a bit of a problem with the wording of the poll question. It reads:
[QUOTE=AP poll]
Do you consider yourself a supporter of the Wall Street protests, or are you not a supporter of the Wall Street protests?
[/QUOTE]
Wording can make a huge difference in poll results, and the question “do you consider yourself a supporter of X?” suggests a bit more loyalty and backing than “are you in favor of X?”
Also, the poll’s alternative to ‘supporter’ isn’t ‘opponent’ or ‘neither’ but ‘not a supporter.’
Contrast this AP poll, taken October 13-17, with the Gallup poll taken October 15-16 (link is to pollingreport.com, sorry, no direct link), with a similar question:
[QUOTE=Gallup poll]
“Do you consider yourself to be a supporter of the Occupy Wall Street movement, an opponent of the Occupy Wall Street movement, or neither?”
[/QUOTE]
which shows 26% support, 19% oppose, and the rest neither/unsure. Sure, the ‘support’ numbers are lower than the AP poll, but it makes clear that there are more supporters than opponents.
Or for a question that asks about agreeing/disagreeing rather than supporting/opposing, take the poll (same link) conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates, from October 13-16. The question:
[QUOTE=Princeton Survey Research Associates poll]
Among those who have heard a lot, some, or not too much about the demonstrations [83% of poll respondents, fwiw]:
“From what you know about these demonstrations against Wall Street, would you say you completely agree with the goals of the protestors, mostly agree, mostly DISagree, or completely disagree with their goals?”
[/QUOTE]
59% completely or mostly agreed;
31% completely or mostly disagreed.
Three polls, all taken at basically the same time, asking three related but different questions, getting very different numbers.
Wording matters. Which wording is ‘correct’ is sometimes obvious, sometimes less clear, sometimes it depends on what meaning you’re trying to draw from the poll results.
Again, the poster I was responding to used the term “support”, so I think polls which ask that question are the proper ones to use when determining “support”. As for polls which ask if you agree with “the goals” of the protesters, do I really have to point out the problem with that question?
I think it’s pretty obvious that ‘support’ meant two different things in the two different contexts.
Yes, you do. At the broad-strokes level that most people understand politics, it’s pretty clear who’s on which side here, and why.
I don’t think it’s clear at all that they mean different things.
Without explicitly stating what the goals are, having someone say they agree with them is not very meaningful. Especially when we have people who really do support these guys telling us that it’s not important to have specific goals. If I were asked that question in a poll, I would be lying if I said I supported or didn’t support their goals. I’ve been reading the news stories and know a thing or two about the demonstrations, but I couldn’t tell you what their goals are, or if they even have an agreed upon set of goals. I’ve seen several individuals mention goals, but I don’t know if they speak for the group or not.
Bad pictures. The occupation is about half black. I have been there several times and there is a strong black presence.
FOX 2 Detroit | Local News, Weather, and Live Streams | WJBK here is a TV picture.
Thank you I read the Wiki on Icke, and did not think much of it. However, I did summarize that basically Icke is your typical absent minded professor with his share of quirks. Many intellectuals experience this. Einstein, Socrates, and Linclon did. The point is what he says, and that his facts are correct. No news here.
There is nothing Barry Obama would like more than to be the leader of the 99%. Unfortunately, Obama has pissed off his base big time, and this includes me.
During the debt ceiling talks Obama sold out the New Deal, New Frontier, and the Great Society in one move. He indicated he was willing to play poker and consider cuts in Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. Democratic presidents never compromise the BIG 3. Last time the DNC sent me a fund raising letter, I wrote across it and sent back, “I do not donate to Republicans.” The night Obama sold out the Big 3, I removed the special 2012 Obama bumper sticker sent by the DNC for DNC members, and from my Jeep. We put Obama in office, and he is not following instructions. Watch Obama out their campaigning for his JOBS legislation, his popularity is down the toilet with almost everyone.
There are members of the Democratic Party who would like to dump Obama in the primaries, and put Hillary Clinton up for 2012. I was Clinton before I was Obama.
The 99% is against both political parties and Wall Street, (ie; all financial capitols around the planet. It is a political blood bath over at the DNC. Loyal lifetime union members are telling the Democratic Party to fuck off, and are going into the streets with OWS. OWS has allowed them in, ONLY if they are participants, and do not take leadership roles.
Could their be a third party? I doubt it, this thing is already going international. OWS is way past the 2012 election the United States, the focus is on demonstrations in Greece and Rome. Europeans are dumping Euros and buying dollars. Americans are moving out of dollars into metals. I bought a little gold last week myself.
**
TODAY THE VATICAN ENDORSED OCCUPY WALL STREET. Occupy Wall Street: Vatican sides with anti-capitalist protesters in call for ‘global economic authority’ | Holy Post | National Post THE TRAIN IS LEAVING THE STATION.**
**"VATICAN CITY — The Vatican called on Monday for the establishment of a “global public authority” and a “central world bank” to rule over financial institutions that have become outdated and often ineffective in dealing fairly with crises.
The document from the Vatican’s Justice and Peace department should please the “Occupy Wall Street” demonstrators and similar movements around the world who have protested against the economic downturn."**
Great. You have the Lizard Man and the World’s Greatest Pedophile Protector on your side. Where do I sign up?
Also, Hillary isn’t on the side with the Occupiers. She’s part of the 1-percent.
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/10/24/professor-explains-how-economic-inequality-harms-societies/ Smart rich people should learn something from this TED talk. The wage differential does not just harm the poor. It does not just harm the country. It harms the rich too. This study in the talk refers to mental illness, homicides, prison populations, social mobility , health effects and more.
The whole society suffers from the greed of the top 1 percent. But the irony is they do too.
Let’s not forget that they have the fervent support of gonzomax. If that’s not the Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval, I don’t know what is!
What does that have to do with anything? I rarely mention your conservative leaning as coloring your views ,although they obviously do. This is TED data. I have nothing to do with that at all. Perhaps someone can teach you something. I was hoping TED could.
Bank of America Deathwatch: Moves Risky Derivatives from Holding Company to Taxpayer-Backstopped Depository | naked capitalism Sometimes I think many of you are totally ignorant of what horrible, selfish people run banks. here bis B of A moving its derivatives to FDIC backed accounts. That would put the tax payers on hook again. My question is what the hell will it take too get some of you people out in occupation? These guys will rob us until you stop them.
I’ll leave it up to your political allies to explain how much they value having you on their side.
I support the New York Yankees and the Mets: hey, it’s a living. I can’t say that I’m a supporter of either though.
26% is an astonishingly high percentage of supporters. To say that a majority of Americans support OWS wouldn’t be inaccurate though, to the extent that most view it favorably. Admittedly, I’d like to see a couple more polls to see whether my take is accurate. FWIW, today’s Pew poll well it seem to inconveniently back John Mace’s POV… Public Divided Over Occupy Wall Street Movement | Pew Research Center Support: 39%, Oppose: 35%. Lots of people in the middle. That said, independents register 43% support. And the Tea Party has less support and more opposition.
Occupy Wall Street moves from one success to another. For 8-9 months the Washington media had been focusing on everything but the problems facing the country. The deficit discussion was oblivious to textbook economics and professional opinion which said that our long term deficit problems were tied to health care and that over the immediate term the economy required fiscal stimulus. And yet in a few weeks the dysfunction was blunted: Republicans are in turmoil trying to figure out how they can paper over their pro-plutocratic pampering. Tough minded analysts like Bloomberg/Business Week are getting into the act: their newest blog is titled: Occupy Wall Street: The Wealth Debate. No simpering conservatives at that outlet: they know exactly what the protest is about. A sampling:
Hey, I don’t necessary agree with them. I’m just saying their stance lacks the typically inane modern conservative obtuseness.
No, Icke is not a professor. He’s your typical crank who gloms on to any opportunity to give him leverage with the rubes. Thinking that the queen of England is a lizard is not a quirk, it’s a pathology.
Why does that matter? You obviously need educating. i provided a TED talk for you and you figured a personal attack to me was a reasonable response.
I gave a post where B of America is trying to make tax payers, through the FDIC ,responsible for their gambling losses. You gave a Rush type response. No surprise there.
Fine posting and very mature MACE.
In other news, a 1%-er (or, uh, 53%-er, maybe) has taken it upon themselves to express their disagreement with Occupy by tossing what appears to be a Drano bomb into the middle of the Occupy Maine encampment:
Way to support domestic terrorism, John!
Gonzo argues consistently and hard for generally good ideas. He is a valuable ally.
There, happy?
At Occupy Oakland this morning hundreds of officers from at least 10 law-enforcement agencies used tear gas and batons to wreck Occupy Oakland’s encampment. Arrests were made.
“According to the Oakland Tribune, a spokeswoman for the mayor, Karen Boyd, said Friday that the protesters had shown themselves incapable of self-governance. “As a collective, they cannot maintain the plaza in a safe condition,” she said.”
So, which is safer- sleeping in a tent at a peaceful protest or lobbing “flash-bangs”, batons and teargas at 4 am?
You’re in Detroit, Detroit is about 80% Black. Blacks are still underparticipating in the movement.